Warranty Issue with New SN200 |
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h20loo
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 225 |
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Actman- I am somewhat a neighbor(Severn Falls) and we have been looking at boats with a view to finalizing a purchase at the Toronto Boat Show. I can assure you that I would not have my new boat dragged across the continent and returned to me in the winter when I can not test it or know whether I am storing my pride and joy or just another annoyance. You have a substantial investment in time and money in this and I hope you see it through to a beneficial conclusion.
Good luck and we are watching. |
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70 Mustang project
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Fl Inboards
Grand Poobah Joined: January-20-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2065 |
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Sorry! Pete your wrong!! This man is fully in the know about how, why and what as it pertains to Nautiques, MasterCrafts and Malibu's. Also he designs High level Tournament water skis and many many componets their in asscoiated with tournament level waterskiing.
So yes he does have the slightest idea!! And more!!come over to our world and you might learn a thing or two!! Cheers! Im off to pull full contact Tubing with the new set of monkey bars I just fabbed up for the old American Skier!! |
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Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Jody, I'm fully aware of what it does but wanted to see if Paul understood the procedure. Yes, it does a good job for the underwater gear but not engine to shaft. I'd say Paul doesn't have the slightest idea!! |
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Fl Inboards
Grand Poobah Joined: January-20-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2065 |
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Actually it is not laser alignment per say to align the motor to the running assembly. But more laser location during instilation of the underwater gear and location of the hole for the shaft log assembly! All done with laser drill and boring fixtures designed in house at Nautiques. It really works well, fast and accurate!!
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Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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paul, Fill me (us) in on exactly what the laser alignment does and how it works. |
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skicat
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2006 Location: Duluth, GA Status: Offline Points: 1128 |
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Hasn't deflated yours any has it Doc? I think it is time for a group hug |
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Fl Inboards
Grand Poobah Joined: January-20-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2065 |
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Paul I like the word extraneous along with the BS. I am saddened that this guy has laundered his greivance here on CCF and on PN. Seems to me he is fanning the fire to get nothing for doing what he is doing. I have been involved with a few similar instances while at CC and we went out of our way to make the customer happy. I know the new Regime at Nautiques is bending over backwards to help this guy get what he has paid for.
Dude! let Nautiques fix your boat, you got nothing to loose. And for the rest of you claim jumpers remember their are two sides to every story and Nautiques have not been on either site and hung out their laundry!!! |
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Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
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05 210
Platinum Member Joined: February-17-2006 Location: Southern Maine Status: Offline Points: 1481 |
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You must be an engineer Mike |
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SharkSN
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: Sproat Lake Status: Offline Points: 119 |
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Sorry to ruffle your feathers, rambling man...just would like to hear the noise....do you have any better ideas ?
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Shark, sounds if you are the know all on things mechanical. I must ask tho, why is your boat so slow? May your laser alighnment is off a tad , or repeaded beaching has scuffed the hull.
If you cant run 55 plus , get back on the porch.I am not the biggest dog in the pack, but 58 aint slow either. Hang here a little while and that ego will soon be deflated. Boat dr |
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SharkSN
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: Sproat Lake Status: Offline Points: 119 |
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If it goes back to the factory then it's a much better/controlled working environment, with everything they need to correct the issue.
I would like to see a Youtube video of the noise. Let's hear the noise instead of the extraneous BS about wearing Nautique sweater on inside out(that's a joke) Some basic troubleshooting tips: There are stethoscopes you can use to track sources for noise. I also used a video camera for the same purpose = the cam mic to pinpoint noise (Range Rover suspension squeak). Decouple the drive-shaft, likely the noise disappears - would have saved the tranny replacement exercise. They might be wanting the laser check the alignment again. But until I hear the noise it's difficult to theorize. After all these years I am batting a pretty good average on troubleshooting from sounds (both cars and boats). |
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87BFN owner
Grand Poobah Joined: August-25-2006 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 2194 |
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The noise that is accurring is not the only problem with this boat either. From what was said there was a list of things that were wrong, the noise is the only one they have not fixed. I agree I would not send my boat back to the factory as they have no plan in place on how to fix it and how long it will take to repair. Once they have your boat what do you do then?
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ski196
Newbie Joined: November-26-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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The 2010 SN 200 that Actman bought and paid for was delivered defective. This is not an opinion it was confirmed by the dealer and the dealers mechanic.
If Correct Craft gave him a 2011 what do they lose? They made their money on the initial sale as did the dealer. They can take the 2010 back, figure out what is wrong with it and turn around and sell it as a demo. They move another boat off the line everyone is happy and nobody loses any money. Seriously, how is offering to take the boat back to the factory doing anything at all for their customer? This boat is defective, it has already had one transmission change. Taking it back is something they should have done after the transmission change did not fix the problem. Actman is now sitting on a boat that he cannot sell. CC had all summer to do the right thing and in reality are just being the bully on the block. If they don't want to replace his BROKEN boat with a replacement then just give him his money back. Sorry if this sounds a little strong but I followed this thread on PN and Actman has kept his cool for over 3 months while CC and the dealer tried to fix a boat that should NEVER HAVE BEEN DELIVERED! How did this boat pass CC's in water, JD Power award winning, quality control inspections? I have purchased 4 new 196's (99,02,05,09), plus an 05 for our club and never water tested any of them before writing the check. Being a Correct Craft meant that it was going to be right and if there was some freak anomaly CC would make it right. Times change. |
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05 210
Platinum Member Joined: February-17-2006 Location: Southern Maine Status: Offline Points: 1481 |
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The laws vary from state to state on stuff like this.In some states lemon laws do not apply to superficial things like boats and motorcycles. The warranty runs from the in service date until expiration,reguardless of how much time it spends down due to repair. Some states also regulate how much time a unit can be down for repairs even if they are not related or reacccurring issues.ie if your car is in the shop for more than 30 days total in xx amount of time it can be considered a lemon,even if it is a different problem every time. I belive Mass. is very strict when it comes to that. I have seen people successfully negotiate additional years of warranty coverage because of extended downtime/excessive repairs also. Mike |
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actman
Newbie Joined: August-31-2010 Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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I have been reading all the posts on here as well as on the other forum and everyone is entitled to there own opinion. I was told by my dealer as well as CC to continue to use the boat till they could come up with a fix/solution. Would it really make sense to leave it at the dealer from the day I received it to today and beyond and not have a boat for the summer? I have been very patient about this issue because I was told by the owner of the dealship, Correct Craft and at the time PCM that they would make it right no matter what it takes. They all worked on this however at times they had no solutions to try and alot of time went by. More time then from reading posts on here that most people would like if they were in this situation. Yes I could get mad and upset trust me on that! However they did not turn there back on me ever and avoid my quest to have this resolved. The head of customer service has been one of the nicest guys I would ever like to meet and will plan on meeting in person this spring. However he cannot make it all happen the way I see it as well as many others who have contacted me. He can only make recommendations to his superiors in hopes of getting it all resolved for both partys. I have been give two options and now do to the dealer going away, it will be two more weeks of waiting on this.
Yes times have changed with CC. I remember attending a pro tour stop in Canada and having the privilege of having lunch with Ralph Meloon Sr the president at the time of Correct Craft along with my father. My memory is strong to this day of meeting a warm kind hearted carring person. I felt so proud to be a Nautique owner at that time. He extended his friendship to me and my father that day. Just by talking with him I had the stongest feeling that he would continue to make the best boats possible and continue to give the best customer service just as his father had done many years earlier. Sometimes that kind of relationship is lost between presidents of companys and there customers. That really needs to return. I think everyone would agree on that! |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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The warranty apparently states that no compensation for lost time will be made. The lawyers were on the MANY years ago.
If it were like the US lemon law, it would be 3 tries on the same issue, then it can be taken back, and the owner rewarded for the value of the vehicle. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Hey Donald, Sorry, I just re read your previous post and I must have just misread your reference to "the season" and thought you meant for him to give up the boat for the season meaning winter. My bad. Also, the reference to Canada was based on my first screw up. I hope this works out for Actman. As far as the warranty, how should this work? How many tries and how much time do they get, and does the warranty run concurrent with all the wasted time? Tom |
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Well put. This is why I applaud Actman bringing his story here to keep it out in the open. Since it seems that Nautiques is leaning towards Chrysler's attitude with your FIL, Actman needs to use all his weapons. He just wants the boat he paid for. |
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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05 210
Platinum Member Joined: February-17-2006 Location: Southern Maine Status: Offline Points: 1481 |
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Me either, with the exception that this problem was inherent from delivery when new. If he used it for 50 hours throughout the season and the problem developed then I agree w/ you 100% Hotboat. I don't blame him for using it while they tried to figure out the problem. He already paid for it, I wouldn't let it sit there at the dealer, either.In that case he'd have bought a brand new boat and been able to put zero hours on it, because it still isn't fixed. My father FIL went to arbitration on a Jeep Grand Cherokee that developed a vibration that they couldn't find. All he wanted was a fair deal on a trade and Chrysler was unwilling to work with him. Well, in the end, they got what they had coming. The vehicle was over a year old and he got ALL of his purchase money back, registration fees,taxes,+ interest, and the $1 bill he had to pay to go to arbitration . They got a used vehicle with problems and 20k miles on it. He paid cash too. It cost them a whole lot more than it would have if they just cut there losses and tried to help him. He had a great relationship with the dealer and they did what they could and backed him 100% because they believed that he was right. A year later, my BIL bought a brand new Dodge truck from the same dealership and the steering column failed when it was less than two months old. It was backordered and they couldn't get one for 8 weeks and were not willing to give him a truck to use in the meantime(he's a builder and needs a truck, not a loaner car). The service manager called Chrysler and asked them to look up history on my FIL and call back to see what they could do. They took a column out of a brand new truck going down the assembly line and it was at the dealership the next day. Imagine that. These companies CAN help you, most of the time they just WON'T Mike |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Hotboat,
You have to read the whole thread on the PN site to understand how Actman bent over backward to help Nautiques. |
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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Donald80SN
Grand Poobah Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Denver, NC Status: Offline Points: 3888 |
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Seacamper, I never said for him to give up his boat for the entire winter. I also stated nothing about him being treated differently because he is from Canada. I also stated that if it were me. I based this on his statement that he had special ordered the boat with all of the options and specific color combos. It sounds like he was very satisfied with the apprearance of the boat. That may not be the case with another boat. I also work for a World Wide Manufacturing Company and I know how warranties work. Donald |
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hotboat
Gold Member Joined: March-28-2009 Location: Conn Lake Pa Status: Offline Points: 814 |
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I dont think I could purchase something, use it for a season and expect to get a full refund or new model replacement. Yes the soup was a poor example perhaps, but I think it said in here he paid cash for it so it seemed about the equiv to me buying soup...
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Brian
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Right on 05 210. Comparing a 50k boat to a bowl of soup is ludicrous. Any restaurant that you get a bad bowl of soup at would gladly give you another soup, or comp it. That is if you have the cajones or are that cheap to complain about a lousy bowl of soup.
Now taking CC to court would probably be a pretty clear shot seeing all the issues and how patient actman has been and allowing CC and it's dealers to try and resolve it. That is if this were in the US. i have no idea how legal issues work in Canada. Add in CC's new owner's and the fact that the company is not the same as it used to be and that only adds to the case for actman. I love the fact that actman came to CCF with this, as it seems PN's big sponsor has quieted him down over there. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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05 210
Platinum Member Joined: February-17-2006 Location: Southern Maine Status: Offline Points: 1481 |
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These companies have to know that occassionally their propaganda will get tarnished on a public forum. It looked to me from the other thread on PN that he was being pretty patient, even though he obviously registered on this site solely to air his laundry.
Actman is from Canada so I ask any naysayers this: If he is telling it like it is & if you were in his shoes, would you want to do what they are asking, or would you be expecting a new boat? That's a long way to ship a boat on a hope that they can fix it. What if they ship it all the way back to him and it isn't fixed? You all know as well as I do that if he was in a Lemon Law State he would already be well on his way to a free boat(or a refund). He's not & I assume U.S. consumer protection laws don't apply in Canada. The facts as they have been posted so far: *noisey since new (it's not like the noise started a year into the warranty) *multiple trips to dealer ( inconvienent if nothing else) *factory has offered to try to fix ( so apparently they agree that it is not right) *do not have an equivalent current year boat to give him ( so they expect him to pay up for a 2011 model when they have already sold him a defective boat that they profitted on once already.) *boat does have 50 hrs on it (I guess he must have used it too much when it was new....??? Irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.) *When you have a real problem JD Power awards are apparently not worth the paper that they are printed on. At least not anymore. IMO, if Actman is indeed not hiding anything he has every right to be upset. If your going to brag about being the best in the industry you have to be prepared to back it up. There is a huge difference between trying to make everyone happy and doing what is right when warranted. FWIW, the obviously heavy corporate influence on PN is one of the reasons I very rarely visit that site anymore. Mike |
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hotboat
Gold Member Joined: March-28-2009 Location: Conn Lake Pa Status: Offline Points: 814 |
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At dinner tonight I ordered a bowl of soup, when I tasted it something didnt taste correct, after eating a portion of the bowl I asked for a full refund, since I didnt return it after the first taste they were only willing to credit me partial...
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Brian
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Actually Riley, I was responding to Donald about giving the boat up for the whole winter. It does not matter if he's from Canada. He paid $50,000 for a boat and its up to Actman what he does with it in the winter. I am not opposed to the factory taking the boat, but when does the company admit it has a lemon? How about all the lost time? How about the time you are using the boat burning up the warranty? How about all the time you use the boat hating the noise? You end up hating the boat because you are forced to "shut up and color" by the company. I agree that this could go to court, and that is probably why Actman is posting this here. He would like the company to simply make him whole as opposed to hiding behind an army of lawyers. He is probably hoping that the company realizes he is posting this and we all are watching. I know I am. If he was not posting here, it would be easier for a company to force him into doing what they want verses what is right. Of course, I am just another guy on a forum, but since the change of owners, I have my eye on the new owners to see if they stay in the Correct Craft tradition, or if they fall off into corporate oblivion. Tom |
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7948 |
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Actman is posting in a forum, so he's going to get opinions on the matter. Obviously there's a problem, but when the manufacturer offers to take your boat back to the factory and fix it and you refuse, where do you go from there? Court? Good luck with that. |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Stick to your guns Actman. They need to make this right. I have no problem with you bringing the facts here. They (PCM,CC) should not want to hide in the dark either. I do not think the truth leaves a foul stink in the air. One of the companies has a design flaw that needs to be corrected on a 50+K boat. If this was a Mercedes, you would be in a new vehicle. The company dithering is pi$$ing me off and its not even my boat! To say Actman needs to give the boat to the factory for the whole winter is absurd. Actman paid cash money for the boat and at $50 K, he is being denied a return on his investment every day, not just considering by month. Maybe Actman winters in Florida. Maybe he had upgrade plans for next season. Why should you decide what Actman wants to do with HIS possesion? +2 for Actman.
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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05 210
Platinum Member Joined: February-17-2006 Location: Southern Maine Status: Offline Points: 1481 |
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Sorry man, those days are long gone. Mike |
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SharkSN
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: Sproat Lake Status: Offline Points: 119 |
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After more than eight decades of experience and with members of the fourth and fifth generations of the Meloon family active in the business, Correct Craft is the oldest family-owned boat company in the United States. The people that work in with this particular company (CC) have my respect.
Paid in Cash & Well used This particular boat here, my second SN has been great, and now better than ever. Who you are is not about the stuff you have. |
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