86 SN rebuild |
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lakedog55
Gold Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: Lake Weir Fl Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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Hi, I am doing a 86 sn as well Did you need the whole 2x10 or will a 2x8 work for the mains?
Thanks Mike |
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Lakedog55
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Ranger
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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A 2X8 is actually 1.5 inches thick. Everything I used was 2X Fir. Even the smaller blocks are from 2X fir. I just planed them to be 3/4 inch thick
Jeff |
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79SNbrady
Senior Member Joined: June-26-2008 Location: athens, Tn Status: Offline Points: 229 |
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are your stringers a true 2" wide? So far the wood i have looked at for my rebuild the true wood dimension is 1.5"
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"It's just water... not concrete or dirt... so just throw it"
-Parks Bonifay 1979 Ski Nautique - (stringer job completed summer 2012) 2007 236 Team - All White! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21124 |
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I cant tell you how handy a heater is... whether its early morning or early/late season, its really nice to have! We dont quite have SoCal's climate though.
Your plan for the electronics is a good one, though Im not sure how far forward youre planning to carpet, which may complicate things. The kick and side panels hide that whole airbox area, so no carpet required- very utilitarian. I think you'll find that the space gained without it is not very significant- but I suppose every little but helps on these smaller boats. |
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Ranger
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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79SNbrady
No, I'm not using foam in my rebuild and I used 2x10 fir for the mains and 2X8 fir for the secondaries. Jeff |
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Ranger
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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I guess when I get to that part of the rebuild, I might change my mind. I'll keep my options open. I appreciate your experience and thoughts.
It looks as though you ran your duct's similar to what I want to do, pushed as far forward as possible. It still looks to me that if the box wasn't there, you would have additional floor area. As far as the electronics. I was going to laminate a flat piece of ply on the side of the hull. I could then mount what I wanted and keep it off the floor. As far as room for a heater. Maybe it's my age, but if I need a heater, I stay home. Jeff |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21124 |
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Once you bring the vent hoses and conduit up in this area, I think you will be surprised at how little space is left over for "storage". I went to great lengths to maximize this area by having the vents exit as far forward as possible, and the conduit as far rearward as practical, and it created enough space to mount a heater- but not much more. If you leave the whole thing floor height, with the taper of the hull, you'll be left with even less useable floor space up there. I certainly do agree that there are alternative ways to build this area up (if you so choose) other than to shape it with foam- but I do think the elevated position under the bow (read: dry) makes it a great location to mount electronics- heater, stereo, etc. We did everything we could to increase the storage when we rebuilt our BFN, but this was one part of the factory design that we thought had merit- so we kept it. YMMV. |
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79SNbrady
Senior Member Joined: June-26-2008 Location: athens, Tn Status: Offline Points: 229 |
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Jeff,
Are you planning to re-foam the stringers? Also i sent you a email about wood dimensions. |
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"It's just water... not concrete or dirt... so just throw it"
-Parks Bonifay 1979 Ski Nautique - (stringer job completed summer 2012) 2007 236 Team - All White! |
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Ranger
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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Yes I agree that the only function of the air box is to provide a mounting area for the kickboard, but I would rather have the extra storage area. I'm planning on moving the ducts to the starboard side as far as I can, so that the area is open for storage. If I do install a small kick panel, I can think of other ways to do it without a huge foam block.
Jeff |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21124 |
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I think this is the airbox's only function. On the earlier boats, it went full width, as only a kickboard mounted to it. Without it, mounting the kick and other panels gets a little tricky. Those panels serve as a footrest for the driver, as well as hide the mechanicals (bilge line, wire harness, shift and steering cables, air hoses) from plain sight. It also provides some "high ground" to mount electronics, heaters, etc. Obviously some sort of ventilation for the engine is required, hence the three 3" lines running from the bow to the bulkhead. The factory used woefully inadequate dryer vent tubing. Most here replace with something superior, like schedule 40 hard PVC. I used flexible PVC in the BFN, which made routing it a little easier. I believe Greg used some hard corrugated plastic tubing. Roger's custom fiberglass tubes are awesome, but need to be made special. Lots of options though. |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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The air box is also where the kickboard and side board mount.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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By who's standards Pete? Yours or a closet Tuber? |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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The air box holds the conduit in place but also provides flotation. I used pvc electrical conduit for the lengths that run through the foam then flex duct from there to the scoop. You have to get fresh in there for the engine to breath. Also to carry away any fumes that might accumulate in the bilge.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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Ranger
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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I don't think it does anything at all. It's a box of foam. I'm going to run the same air duct's, I'm just not going to add the foam block.
I'm intending on routing the duct's as close to the starbord side as I can. I might try to build my own out of fiberglass like UK1979 did. I really don't want to spend the extra time, but I want it to be a clean install. So, if I can't find anything suitable, I'll try to build it. Jeff |
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WOFTAM
Groupie Joined: July-14-2010 Location: SW Michigan Status: Offline Points: 97 |
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Nice going Ranger. You are giving me some productivity envy...
You said that you are not going to install an air box. What is the purpose of the airbox? Is it just to provide fresh air to the bilge? When I demo'd mine, the hoses from the scoop on the bow were little more than what I would describe as dryer vent hose. They were a definite source of moisture as any water that splashed in the scoop went into the "hose" and had remained there since 1981. If the airbox serves a function, has anyone figured out a way to drain the stuff that comes down the scoop? |
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Just because you can does not mean you should.
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1411 |
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Jeff both are set in foam but the back battery box is only 1/8 off the hull, you can see my boxes start around the line of the dash so the front box is not that big, its just to stow away things but it will take beer too, just has a hinged lid on it.
I'm not a 2001 guy, Joe your man there , but would think you need to check on how much the bow slopes I think its more than a Mk 2 SN and the height of the deck, you may have more or less room ? to do it as Tim said may need to bring the boxes back towards the pylon. |
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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Ranger
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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uk1979,
Thanks for the pictures. I have seen your setup and like what you have done. I think I have it printed somewhere. Do you have the box setting on the bottom of the hull or is it supported on the sides. I also really like the air duct's. I might also go that route if I can't find something suitable. What do you use the front box for? and how do you get access? Jeff |
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1411 |
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May be of help when thinking which way to go.
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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Ranger
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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I'm still not sure which route I'll go, but the tray idea gives me more options. I pretty confident that I wont be using the original box and if I don't use it, you're welcome to it.
I'll let you know. Jeff |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21124 |
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Joe's battery box looks to be located in the same spot as the "aft" of the 2 batt boxes his boat originally came with. It still requires the "cantelevered" observer seat that I mentioned above. Here's a shot of an original early 80's set up:
I wasnt comfortable with 12" of the seat overhanging the battery box, nor did I want to be stepping on the lid every time I got in the drivers seat... but a bunch of boats came from the factory that way so its certainly a viable option. I suppose theres no reason you technically need a box vs. a tray if youre going to be going with a fully draining, foamless design. I chose to go essentially foamless and drain all of the underfloor cavities together- but not to the bilge. I also sealed my battery box off. I figure that any path for the water to escape is also an intrusion point (and the low lying batt boxes on my other boats seem to always collect water) and I didnt want ANY water below the floor, if I could help it. I did provide means to get the water back out though, should it find its way in somehow... I just wasnt going to invite it in. Thats about the only reason I can think of against going with the tray idea. One benefit is that you'd end up with a lot more room with the same sized opening, as the factory battery box tapers quite a bit. If you do decide not to reuse the battery box in your rebuild and you'd be willing to part with it, Id be interested in it for one of my other boats- so drop me a line if you decide to sell it. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Captain Queer -> Chris Quinn |
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Ranger
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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Pbrain,
I’ll go ahead and admit it. I had to read your post 10 times before I figured out what PN was. But I still can’t figure out CQ. And no, I haven’t been at PN. Jeff |
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Ranger
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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Thanks for all of the quick responses.
It might be my history with ocean boats and bass boats, but I've always wanted more than one battery to start an engine. I would probably be fine with one, but the added security of two is worth it to me. I've seen a couple of designs that parallel what you guys have described above. But I do have a question. Why do I need a box at all? I'm not foaming the hull and I'm not reinstalling the air box. It will be a flat deck under the bow. Another boat I rebuilt had a "tray" of sorts that the batteries were secured too. I'm thinking that I could build something similar between the two main stringers that would maintain the original location.I'll be using optima batteries, so leakage wont be a concern. The picture that JoeinNY posted probably best describes what I’m thinking, a complete redesign of the forward section under the deck. How do you access the bottle? Is there another hatch? I'm planning on a system that will charge both batteries will running, but will isolate them when the engine is shut off. In an emergency, the battery's can be tied together for more juice. But, I want to keep the boat "looking" original for the most part, However, I want to improve the design where possible. What are your thoughts? Thanks again for the help. Jeff |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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Here is the only picture I found showing the relative location..
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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It is certainly possible to get two batteries in there.. my 83 came with two boxes, both the same size, one held the battery the other was a cooler. One of them, I think the battery box one, is pictured up above in Tims boat.
I have only one opening now it accesses a custom compartment that I put in to hold the 2 optimas and a bottle. Going the direction I went makes the height really tight with the cover one, and that is with a floor that is about .25" higher than stock. I couldnt go any farter forward due to the bottle opening.. but if you ran them the long way there should be ample room for a custom box, or for two factory boxes like the earlier cooler+battery installations. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Jeff,
I've got to ask why the 2 batteries? You may want to rethink the issue. BTW, as a reference, CQ has got a pretty decent sound system in his boat and only has one battery!! You haven't been spending too much time over on PN have you? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21124 |
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2 battery boxes might be a little tough. I had trouble locating one on the BFN. Trying to keep it aft of the driver's kick panel, but not interfere with the observer seat brackets doesnt leave much room. You cant pick up much room side to side because of the space needed for the 3" vents and the conduit for the steering and control cables...
Are you planning to keep the "air box" at the driver's feet? If youre willing to make it narrower, you may be able to fit a second box further forward of the one from the factory. The early 80's 2001's had 2 boxes, but put the second one further aft, essentially under the observer's seat. The frame was moved inward so the base was pretty well cantelevered. I decided against this approach. This is how I would *like* to do it. The only thing is that Im not sure if you have the depth for a box further forward... you may not. Alternatively, you could build yourself a slightly bigger battery box and put it in the same spot as the factory. Something just large enough to hold 2 Optimas (not 2 regular sized batteries) might fit in just a little more space. Your workmanship on the stringers looks excellent. Its probably too late now, but you may find that glassing everything at once is a huge pain. Doing one at a time gives you a lot more room to work. |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Another bridge crossed. Looking good. I was going to do a 2 battery box but in the end there was not room in the Skier. You may be able to get away with it in the SN since its bigger. After listening to a lot of the guys on here I was beginning to question needing the second battery anyway. Unless you are going to beach it and pump tunes all day through a massive stereo system...
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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Ranger
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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I finally have all four stringers in and bedded. What a great feeling to have this part done. I'm planning on getting all of the filets finished within the next week. I still have all of the blocking to do on the port side, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue.
We can't wait to get the stringers completely glassed in. Once glassed in, I should be fine to drop back on the trailer and move in and out of the garage. Here are the pict's One question that comes to mind is the battery box area. I'm planning on 2 optima batteries, so I need to design a new box. I have a few ideas, but has anyone have any suggestions? Jeff |
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Ranger
Senior Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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Update:
We're still motoring along. The port main is bedded and the port secondary is almost finished. Everything is running alone pretty smooth. We're almost to the point the we can start glassing in the stringers. Jeff |
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