86 SN rebuild

Thanks Keeganino,

I think I have a paint mixer for my drill already, but I probably should pick up another. Good call. I also sent you an email about your left over cabosil.

At this point in the project, I spend a lot of time sitting in the boat, thinking, measuring, thinking some more, measuring and the circle continues until I have so many notes, I can't remember what I was doing.

Thanks again,

Jeff

I have been putting together a list of supplies and was hoping that you guys can take a look and let me know what you think. What am I missing? I will also order CPES from Rot Doctor, but this is a list of items from U.S. Composites.



Thanks

Jeff

I finally got to the computer tonight after two days of working on the '77 nautique. My intention was to ask a million questions about layup schedules, cabosil pot-life, how to cut the biax, etc. I can't think of a single question that wasn't answered in this thread! I must've talked to the same guy at U.S. Composites, Ranger. My garage has everything you mentoined. As far as the Fastco two-part glue, it is epoxy based, and strong as hell. It won't chip off the hull where I spilled a big drop. It's not quite thick enough for filleting, though. It runs when it kicks, so I'll use cabosil. I took some "e-mail friendly" lo-res pics yesterday, so when I get a chance to load them to my computer, I'll start that thread. Keegan, are you coming to the Chattahoochee River Run? I swear I'll have my boat in the water by then, probably with no seats, like yours!

TRBenj wrote: Getting the stuff to stick, and then keeping the air bubbles out as it cures is a constant check and recheck process. Doable though, and worth it.

This is a key point I left out. Don't walk away until you're happy with what you have.

Keegs, is that an extra run or 2 with the router?

Good enough for me, I'll double up with 2/2 4/4 and 8/8. Then I will wrap the tops with biax.

Did you use the 1708 biax? If I buy the 50 inch material, I can split it up the center for two 25 inch strips, which would leave an adequate tab against the hull. Is that the route you took?

Thanks

Jeff

TRBenj wrote: I wrapped the tops of the mains in our BFN with biax. PITA and not user friendly- but it can be done.

I routed the tops of my stringers everywhere they were to be wrapped as Pete mentions and I loved the biaxial. In a lot of ways I thought it was easier to deal with than the lighter cloth. As long as it was completely saturated with resin I was surprised at how easily it would make the radius and then stay put after laying it down.
Here you can see the CPES finish, the fillet, and the raius on the edges


Biaxialed over

TRBenj wrote: Im not sure I agree that 3 layers of cloth is a sufficient layup on the stringers though- especially the mains that support the engine. Personally, Id double that (2/2/4/4/8/8) and then add biax or mat up the sides, and wrap the top as well.

This is the schedule I used as well sorry I forgot to mention that there are 2 layers of each cloth tape. I was just impressed by how strong the biaxial is over the cloth.

I did my entire rebuild largely from Pete and Tim's suggestions They know their stuff!

Great Info, Thanks!

I was planning on using a router to round the edges. Does anyone else have any experience using biax over the tops of stringers? Is it worth the hassle?

Jeff

Jeff,
Run a router with a round over bit (1/4" to 3/8" R) around the tops of all the wood. It makes it easier to glass over the tops.

I was thinking of using biax over the stringer as well, but U.S. Composites said it’s very difficult to work over the top of a stringer and back down. He said it can be done, but it's not user friendly. Did you have any issues with it going over the top of a stringer?

Jeff

I have not heard of anybody using fasco. I would stick to either milled fiber or cab-aer-o-sil. It is not easy to fair at all and is not recommended where fairing is needed. While it is true milled fiber is the strongest, fumed silica is a lot stronger than talc or microballoons which are used where fairing is needed and adequate for this application, and as pointed out makes great fillets.

I agree with the medium cure 635. You can always add less hardener for a slower cure time, but if the temp is below 70 you need that hardener or else you will be waiting forever for it to cure. When I got my 10 gallon kit of 635 it came with 3 and a third gallons of hardener. I never touched the small third bottle because it was getting hot here so I was using less hardener. Digital scales are great for mixing small batches. When I was bedding the stringers and making the fillets I mixed a few 40oz batches which is a PITA using the 1 oz pumps and the scales I had did not read that high. FOr those I used cheap pitchers from the dollar store that were graduated. The biggest favor you can do for yourself when you get into the glass work is buy a small paint mixer for your drill. It is impossible to mix thickener into a 40 oz batch fast enough by hand. Its hard enough in a 9 oz batch!

I also used the eglass tape but I used 2, 4, and 8 instead of 6. I would eliminate the 6 oz cloth from the layup they recommended and just use the 12" biaxial. A layer on each side and then one over the top, and I put 2 layers over the top from the pylon back to 6 inches past the tranny mounts. Bulletproof!

There are many different ways to skin this cat and most of them are going to be better and stronger than original. Just sharing my experience.

I just spoke to U.S. Composites and here is what he suggested.

First, use Fasco 110 Epoxy Glue to bed the stringers. Then use the 2, 4 and 6 inch E-Glass tape for the stringer to hull joint. Then use 2 layers of 6 oz cloth over the top of each stringer. Tie all of it together with a layer of biax in the bilge and between each stringer. Since I have gel coat cracks that will need to be addressed, he recommended that I run roven up the sides under the gunnels.

He also said that I should use the 635 epoxy with medium hardener.

What do you think of the Fasco product?

I cant say enough about how good the biax is. My friend who built offshore race boats for 25 years said that when they were not using kevlar they used biaxial and that was it.

JoeinNY wrote: In terms of Mat I disagree with Pete's comment on the 3oz being too light... 3oz would be a massively oversized mat for general use.

Correction!! Sorry as I missed it was mat! I thought it was cloth!

Ranger-

While you are doing the rebuild please consider replacing the shift system with a morse MV-2 which has a safety lockout. The MV-1 which is original on your boat does not have a lockout.

Tim