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Election 2012 Is Comming

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-14-2011 at 11:15am
Eric, You are onto something here, The money tree is business, and we want and need its apples (jobs and revenue) Now think frome the trees perspective, what is the fertilizer that it reguires to grow and stay healthy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-14-2011 at 12:45pm
the economy is no different, everything in life works on the same basic principals, the apple tree is a self-sustaining entity that just requires a little water and sunlight to thrive, if you intterupt that cycle and forgot to water the tree and water your neighbors while he is on vacation cause your a nice guy, his tree will produce the apples and then you will look at your tree in astonishment and tell the wife, "what happened" you blame the roots, you blame it on cloudy days, you call in a botanist and he tells you you need more water,more fertilizer and you just know now deep down that your water bill is going to skyrocket, you know you got a little lazy and skipped a few waterings.
the guy has a hot wife next door and you are more than happy to water that tree, cause maybe in your mind you'll get a touch of that, which you wont lol
If you really think about it your own body works on the same philosophy, you pump Mcdonalds into your system, your gonna get fat and lazy, whens the last time you've seen a fat 65 year old? btw, they dont make it to 65
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phospher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-14-2011 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by OverMyHead OverMyHead wrote:

Originally posted by phospher phospher wrote:

Originally posted by OverMyHead OverMyHead wrote:


Phil, as the post you quoted said, it is not just taxes, the whole package must be evaluated. Please explain to me why in a free country there would be a "Very,very big price to pay for outsourcing"?



It's not taxes and it's not regulation. And to answer your question, which seems obvious to me, to keep American jobs in America! For the people! It's not illegal but it sure as heck is not ethical and will (is!) leading to the downfall of America. What good does it do our country if every company outsources their work to China? It seems a sure path to an Oligarchy. At what point is it about our fellow man the human being? You continue to reinforce the idea that corporate profits are the most important thing in America. And you seem to have no shame in supporting China products. Conservatives sure don't seem to care much about people for being such God loving Christians. WWJD? Outsource to China? Don't think so.



Phil your view on business is cute in a nieve sort of way. Buisness is business, Its primary obligation is to make profit. That is not to say that a business owner cant choose to support a country that they love, or create a business that cares for people and its employees, but to ensure a business remains in business it requires profit. We in the US need business to provide us goods and services, employee our citizens and fund our government. Business needs a environment that supports its operations (Infrastructure, political and economic stability, pro-business regulation, and operating costs including taxes,regulation, and wages that allow them to be competitive. Business can choose anyplace in the world that they feel best fits their needs. They can be as loyal or disloyal to a given country as they feel fit, certainly if a country demonizes its business owners and the businesses while simultaneously increasing the demands and financial burdens placed on the business I can not blame them for looking elswhere. In todays global economy it is up to a countries government to create an attractive environment in order to keep and attract business. It is up to labor to find ways to support business instead of driving it away.

I thought you socialists were all for one world government, and redistributing our wealth and power to the rest of the world, I guess that all goes out the window when it is your job going to some underprivelaged foreigner.

I do not support chinas products. I support good quality products at reasonable prices wherever they may come from, If they are made in the US it is a bonus.

Since you guys have all the ideas and it is a free country, and it is apparently sooo easy, why dont you just start your own business, pay every employee a hundred grand, full health care, pay the government some extra taxes, and see how long you stay in business. No need to force the rest of us, the world will flock to your door if you pull it off. There is nothing stoping you, put up or shut up I say.


I know how it works.

Again, your post re-affirms your support for the outsourcing of American Jobs. Profits above all! If everyone thinks like you most all of us will be out of our jobs very soon. Like you pointed out, these companies have NO allegiance to the US and only care about profits. Your comments continue to support the race to the bottom. There are model businesses that make a nice profit, pay their employees fair wages, respect the environment, and don't place their profits above all else. You just don't know about them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-14-2011 at 1:05pm
18 pages later and I still don't know what Comming means...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-14-2011 at 1:21pm
Eric, Now we are building an analogy, You might have a tree for "eating apples" your neighbors might be for "baking" no need for you to both grow two trees when you cna grow the one you are good at and trade back and forth. But you must take care of your tree, if not there are two choices, let it wither and die, or transplant it somewhere where it can grow and produce with good care. Either way you end up without a tree, and nothing to trade with. By the way you cannot demand that the tree grow and produce for youbecause that is what you need, you have see to its needs and nurture it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-14-2011 at 1:30pm
Phil you still dont get it, I do not want our businesses to go off shore, but they are. Business leaving is not the disease, it is a symptom. The disease is the increasingly difficult and often hostile business environment we are creating in this country. Business is being driven off shore, and then we demonize them for doing what we caused them to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PAPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-14-2011 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

18 pages later and I still don't know what Comming means...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-14-2011 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

18 pages later and I still don't know what Comming means...


It's a typo HW. It's all about what the good folks in Cumming,GA decide.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phospher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-14-2011 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by OverMyHead OverMyHead wrote:

Phil you still dont get it, I do not want our businesses to go off shore, but they are. Business leaving is not the disease, it is a symptom. The disease is the increasingly difficult and often hostile business environment we are creating in this country. Business is being driven off shore, and then we demonize them for doing what we caused them to do.


Bull. There will always be cheaper places for US companies to offshore their work to. If business is only interested in making as much money as possible then they will continue to outsource their work. If they do decide to keep their business here, we will turn into China with employers continuing to cut benefits, salaries, etc. and the inequality gap will continue to soar.

You said it yourself, businesses are in business to make MONEY. And that is what most of them care about MONEY! Money at all costs!

And don't tell me about demonizing companies when most all large companies executive salaries are millions and millions of dollars.
Buy anything made in America lately?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 62 wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-14-2011 at 4:13pm
This is interesting..   Top CEO compensation

I didnt have time to look, but did not see too many of the top 50 in any my everyday retail business crossings, yet alone even making anything in America.. lots of financial, insurance, and energy boys at the top.......interesting starbucks CEO is #5, and you wonder why its 5 buck a cup? .....comcast and cablevision #34 and 35!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-14-2011 at 6:14pm
One thing that I do see happening and it will be an issue in the future is the organizing of the Chinese employee/worker, its starting to drive the wage up Circa, USA 1975,
thats a good thing, I dont know if it will go as far as union organazation, but... it could happen, maybe they will shoot themselves in the foot.
one mis-understanding that I dont think Dave can see is a company that employs 15,000, its not the 15,000 looking at the bottom line and wanting to profit, the group merely wants a decent wage and to survive, its the 15 on the board calling the shots, trying to appease the stockholder, a very small but greedy group, the ones who get the large bonuses, it could be a 5 second decision to put 15,000 out of work, the average CEO looks at its workers as a necessary evil, its really ashame that those are the thoughts of these guys...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-14-2011 at 6:35pm
Eric, Any one of the 15,000 can leave and start their own business anytime they want to, then they can be the CEO.We all make choices. You guys can keep your heads in the sand if you want, but business is leaving, taking jobs with them, we hate these businesses, the countries that get the jobs love them. You do the math.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phospher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-14-2011 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by OverMyHead OverMyHead wrote:

Eric, Any one of the 15,000 can leave and start their own business anytime they want to, then they can be the CEO.We all make choices. You guys can keep your heads in the sand if you want, but business is leaving, taking jobs with them, we hate these businesses, the countries that get the jobs love them. You do the math.


So you agree with Herman Cain when he says, "If you don't have a job and you're not rich, blame yourself." Do you really honestly think that EVERYONE can start business and EVERYONE can be rich? The idea that everyone can be rich is crazy. Rich people need poor people to work for them. And these people wouldn't be rich if it wasn't for all the government services provided to them roads, schools, police, etc. So to think that they have achieved all this on their own is a fallacy. Furthermore, people we like to call heroes, our military personal, policemen, firefighters, and teachers will never be rich cause we pay most of them like crap! They are honorable jobs but they will never get rich off them. Not to mention all the monopolies that new businesses don't stand a chance against.

And you haven't provided any ideas other than turning us into an American China.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-15-2011 at 11:38am
I have Phil, one thing the government has no control of is when you wake up in the morning and you need a new car, take a right instead of a left to Kia, right down to the Ford dealership, pass Walmart on your way. pay a little more, buy an American product, better than saluting to the nips
We are the ones that create the supply and demand. you quit buying their *************** and the CEO's will notice and will adjust to the needs of Americans, they have no power if they have no money.
next thing you know Kia will be setting up in some fcn cornfield to keep their costs down and start advertising to the dumbass American that they are made right here....you know what, Fords are made here, Chevy's are made here and Americans are made here
Start taking care of US, not the fcn world,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-15-2011 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by phospher phospher wrote:

So you agree with Herman Cain when he says, "If you don't have a job and you're not rich, blame yourself." Do you really honestly think that EVERYONE can start business and EVERYONE can be rich? The idea that everyone can be rich is crazy. Rich people need poor people to work for them. And these people wouldn't be rich if it wasn't for all the government services provided to them roads, schools, police, etc. So to think that they have achieved all this on their own is a fallacy. Furthermore, people we like to call heroes, our military personal, policemen, firefighters, and teachers will never be rich cause we pay most of them like crap! They are honorable jobs but they will never get rich off them. Not to mention all the monopolies that new businesses don't stand a chance against.

And you haven't provided any ideas other than turning us into an American China.


Phil, I Have no ellusion that "everyone" will get rich. Some dont have the drive, and some dont have the guts to leave their secure little worlds where someone else determines thier fates. I do believe that "anyone" has the opportunity to become rich if they choose that path. Herman cain is a great exmple, He was a poor black kid, his dad a chaufeur, and his mom a maid if I remember correctly, he worked hard and made himself into a succesful business person and presidential candidate. this can happen under a government based on liberty. So I do believe what Cain says because he speeks from experience.

I used to be one of those underpaid heroes, I was a 911 paramedic for 25 years. Guess what, I knew I would never make more than 60 mgrand a year working 24 hour shifts and 56 hour average weeks. It was my choice, I did it becasuse I loved the job, Lots of others love it to, so supply and demand determines what the job is worth. People were waiting in line for my job when I left. I choose to do the job I loved, I choose to help people rather than get rich.I would not change that.

A little test, name the only monopoly on this list, Walmart, Shell oil, Galaxo, Apple, Microsoft, The federal government.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote critter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-15-2011 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

I have Phil, one thing the government has no control of is when you wake up in the morning and you need a new car, take a right instead of a left to Kia, right down to the Ford dealership, pass Walmart on your way. pay a little more, buy an American product, better than saluting to the nips
We are the ones that create the supply and demand. you quit buying their *************** and the CEO's will notice and will adjust to the needs of Americans, they have no power if they have no money.
next thing you know Kia will be setting up in some fcn cornfield to keep their costs down and start advertising to the dumbass American that they are made right here....you know what, Fords are made here, Chevy's are made here and Americans are made here
Start taking care of US, not the fcn world,


I cannot afford to do this anymore. I purchased "Made in the USA" products before I retired. But now, I have to be realistic and I purchase what I can afford. I have all US made autos because I purchased them when I was still working. I have all US made boats for the same reason. However, my underware are now made in some asian country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2011 at 12:01pm
Critter, my advise, dont wear any....
I know its hard and, Im not on the pulpit preaching, im just voicing my opinion on what I think is wrong with the economy, and 18 pages without a strong argument against it, I feel like ive been thru enough economy cycles enough to at least speculate a problem. its proven that thru lets say New Balance tennis shoes that we still can be competative, but because of a 20% tariff there is no way that can compete. I think it would be a joint venture between the consumer and the government, A company is geared to what it produces, built to a point to where the overhead will be eye for an eye, as with the US car companies if they are selling and the sales drop in half, you have to do a few things, cut the workforce or raise the price of the cars....overhead is pretty much a fixed price, buildings, loans etc.
Now the Chinese are a point to sustaine you have to sell this many products or the identical thing will happen,
I really hate when someone says to me they are made right here, they are assembled here, What American made means is you take a piece of iron ore, forge that into steel, put that on a truck, send it off to a casting plant or a stamping plant and the end result is a piece of transportation. These fcn Kia's are taking over, the payments will last longer than the car, its a flooded market.
Im merely saying is make it a level playing field, the consumer creates the supply and the demand, in the Grand scheme of things what would happen if we woke up on Monday morning and said thats it, American across the board....I really think the ball would start rolling again...there is no way logically that we can sustaine for 10 more years on this path, we dont have enough products in hand that carry a large price tag, the last 20 years of economy were all on paper, we loaned ourselves into a corner and its time to pay the piper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2011 at 12:23pm
Eric, how do you get around a "living wage" in this country is probably $13 to $20 an hour and in other countries it may only be $1? Up until 10+- years ago, a lot of shoes were made in Maine, but not anymore. All the local companies were bought up by national companies and their manufacturing shipped to over seas. The same shoes are still just as pricey. We still have a New Balance being made or assembled here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote critter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2011 at 1:08pm
Unless I can walk into a store and see all underware with the same price, I have to walk out with the lesser priced brand, with quailty.
And that has not been the "Made in USA" brand for some time.

If I do see all brands at the same price then I will know that the Free Market has failed and government has stepped in.

As I said earlier, if you want to play in a Global Market, you have to be all in. Either get other countries to increase their prices (profits) or lower our costs so that we can price at the lower levels.
Adding tariffs or import fees do not make it a Global Market. It just means that your government, not their prices, have made adjustments to cost the purchaser more for the product. Either compete or close the doors and lets live as a closed country as it was before all of this Free Trade.

I do not see either of those happening as long as we consider outselves a free country.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phospher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2011 at 9:24pm
OverMyHead,

I commend your career as a paramedic. An honorable job for sure. It's jobs like that, which should pay very well.

I completely understand the whole price equation of buying products here in America. Not everyone is in a position to spend more money on American made products. Most times you can't even find products made in the US. It's not the consumers fault, I blame the companies who have chosen to outsource their products/work. American made products are often more expensive but a lot of them are of better quality too, which will last longer and be cheaper in the long run. One of my favorite companies Patagonia, makes excellent products(many here in the USA) and I can rest assured knowing that even their products not made in the US do not use slave labor. We don't need companies that demand endless growth. They are self eating watermelons and only benefit a very small group of individuals.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2011 at 10:41pm
I will say this. Americans are kicking some foregin hinny in the auto industry now. Japs, and the germans are hurting. Chevy, Ford, and Dodge are up to the top. Screw the forgeiners...

BTW, the only reason why Chevy is doing great now, after redoing there contract they finally got rid of the UNIONS!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phospher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2011 at 1:21am
Originally posted by skicat2001 skicat2001 wrote:

I will say this. Americans are kicking some foregin hinny in the auto industry now. Japs, and the germans are hurting. Chevy, Ford, and Dodge are up to the top. Screw the forgeiners...

BTW, the only reason why Chevy is doing great now, after redoing there contract they finally got rid of the UNIONS!!!



Huh? Chevy still uses the UAW union.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2011 at 2:44am
Hmmm, Fanine Mae is a publicly held and traded company. How is that like the USPS? Better study up!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2011 at 2:59am
My daughter moved to Victoria, Canada two weeks ago. She will be there for at least two years. At the border crossing she was given her Social Insurance card. She, like all Canadian residents, have their medical care paid for by the Canadian Government. Best part is, she and her husband are covered by this health care system even when they are visiting me in the US. Go Canada!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2011 at 10:47am
im still trying to figure out Canada John, except for the rude frenchies, not a word from them, some say socialized medicine doesnt work....that is until they start paying out of pocket. my feelings are not one person in this country should be without healthcare, and i feel the better insurance you have the better the treatment you recieve....it should be a right not a privilidge
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Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

im still trying to figure out Canada John, except for the rude frenchies, not a word from them, some say socialized medicine doesnt work....that is until they start paying out of pocket. my feelings are not one person in this country should be without healthcare, and i feel the better insurance you have the better the treatment you recieve....it should be a right not a privilidge
Canada is not socialized medicine, it is single payer health care. You pick your doctor, just like here in the US, and the government pays the bill. Without insurance companies gouging everyone for their cut medicine is very inexpensive to the government. That is why so many people go on drug buying junkets to Canada, the medicine is just as inexpensive to consumers, should they be visiting and not have Canadian insurance. My daughters husband has been there for a year now and is very impressed with their system, having used it several times. Those stories of waits to see a doctor are ridiculous. The wait is much longer here. My endocrinologist is booked 10 weeks ahead, and it took 7 weeks just to get an appointment with the surgeon who did my last shoulder surgery last November. Wait time here is longer and our health care is not as good. I don't understand why the Republicans are trying to reverse the gains we have made in the last few years. A country should be judged according to how it treats its most vulnerable citizens. I have another daughter who is basicay uninsurable. She bas two smlirt start up businesses and is one of the hardest workers I know. The biggest problem in building a successful small business for her is that she must keep her job at another company so she can buy health insurance through them. And how about all those small businesses that the Republicans want to cut taxes on, the majority of small businesses in this country are doctors and lawyers, the very group most say they dislike. The tax problem is more loss of revenue than spending. In 1965 corporate America paid 30% of the total revenue in face@. Today they pay 6%. Now that's Accountimagination. Ah have candidates like Romney who say he has the solution, but he made his money moving his hedge fund, Bain Capitol, to the Bahamas and Caymen islands to avoid US corporate taxes. And what moved there? A brass plaque on a lawyers door. These are some of the problems we face as a nation. This intolerance for others is only weakening us. until we have some real cooperation among our citizens and politicians we will continue to decline.
Oh, and the reason my daughter and her husband have moved to Canada, there is no longer any money here for science and education. My daughter's husband is a physicist working on a post doctorate at the University of Victoria in high energy particle physics phenomenology. The prospects don't look good for returning to the US for science any time soon. Fermilab, the particle accelerator run by the University of Chicago, where be got his PHD in physics, was shut down two weeks ago because the government decided 5-6 years ago to quit funding it. It may be off to France and CERN for the two of them after Canada. That is where particle physics is now. And they too have free health care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phospher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2011 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by john b john b wrote:


Oh, and the reason my daughter and her husband have moved to Canada, there is no longer any money here for science and education. My daughter's husband is a physicist working on a post doctorate at the University of Victoria in high energy particle physics phenomenology. The prospects don't look good for returning to the US for science any time soon. Fermilab, the particle accelerator run by the University of Chicago, where be got his PHD in physics, was shut down two weeks ago because the government decided 5-6 years ago to quit funding it. It may be off to France and CERN for the two of them after Canada. That is where particle physics is now. And they too have free health care.



GOP is the anti-science party. No question.

I watched "Atom Smashers" a while back about Fermilab, awesome movie. It's a shame they decided to shut down the Tevatron. It's also a shame that America is taking a back seat to other countries who are investing in science and education. Yep, GOP wants to bring us back to the 50's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2011 at 11:01pm
They held a reception at Fermilab for everyone who had worked there, on the day it was turned off for good. I was lucky enough to be the Dr's guest at that reception. It was both exciting and sad to see all of the scientists from around the world together in one place, possibly for the last time in the US. Here is a photo of the Dr. at the reception.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2011 at 12:33am
Originally posted by phospher phospher wrote:

Originally posted by john b john b wrote:


Oh, and the reason my daughter and her husband have moved to Canada, there is no longer any money here for science and education. My daughter's husband is a physicist working on a post doctorate at the University of Victoria in high energy particle physics phenomenology. The prospects don't look good for returning to the US for science any time soon. Fermilab, the particle accelerator run by the University of Chicago, where be got his PHD in physics, was shut down two weeks ago because the government decided 5-6 years ago to quit funding it. It may be off to France and CERN for the two of them after Canada. That is where particle physics is now. And they too have free health care.



GOP is the anti-science party. No question.



LMFAO Go green! Save a flush..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2011 at 4:39am
Go green & save a flush? Is that how they do it in Texas when they're camping and listening to country music? We prefer indoor plumbing and homes without wheels up here!
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