67 Wildcat - 426 Chrysler |
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MartyMabe
Grand Poobah Joined: February-21-2006 Location: High Point,NC Status: Offline Points: 3980 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21168 |
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LOL, I love that video... although if Joe didnt have a reputation for rebuilding things stronger/faster/better, I might be more inclined to cry than laugh?
I dont think Joe said exactly what happened, but if I remember correctly, the motor dropped a valve seat, which put a *minor* hole in a piston. The breathers flew off when the crank case became pressurized. I know Joe has some scary fun stuff planned for this one! |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1772 |
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Would those plans include twin turbos? Just a thought!
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Sorry for the weak linking skills, greasy shop hands and a smart phone are not the perfect tools for forum posts.
That was the first and only time I tried to run the engine after cleaning up some wiring issues. The pop at the end was actually the sound of money flying out my pocket, no swearing involved as 10 years of working with kids at a summer camp still have me pretty well conditioned to not respond to surprises with uncontrolled profanity… it still runs through my mind it just doesn’t come out my mouth. Besides I have seen worse… like the time my bilge fumes blew up and caught my boat on fire while full of other peoples' kids... The first thing that happened was that in fact an exhaust valve stuck good guess from our NH friend… however that stuck valve then pulled and dropped the seat, which in fact was pushed through the piston. That lead to the rapid pressurization of the crankcase… which sent both breathers to the ceiling, and inverted the sheetmetal pan over the lifter galley. As for future plans, I have the engine stripped to a short block and ready to be pulled out tonight, if it will fit be the gunwale and the ceiling of the shop (this boat is very tall on the trailer) … then I will cover up the boat and roll it out side to make room in the shop. Both to tear down the motor and check on the expensive parts… block and crank mostly… and so I can work on the number one priority project which is a boat for the son of my machine shop guy… a guy that I apparently will need to stay in the good graces of Maybe over the fall and winter we will see how my wallet will bear the weight of Bill’s twin turbo setup, which would probably look and sound pretty cool in this rig.. even though it would be seriously overkill. |
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Right on Joe, great attitude! Time and more importantly the money saved over time, will fix all. Always good to be on the right side of a machine shop guy (can't wait to see this kids boat). Looking forward to more updates on this project for sure!!!
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Once in a while I get something right - I knew the valve needed to stick to turn the engine into a crankcase compressor, but of course the air needed a path, that convenient hole in the piston.
Sorry to hear of the carnage. I'm really intrigued with that engine, have read more about them since the earlier posts in this thread. I'm really torn about the turbos, like others here, the fact is that after the cool factor I'm not clear on whether a simple carb setup would make the guy running the boat happier in the long run. I guess once dialed in the turbo setup would be very nice but I'm guessing it will take some work to get the fuel delivery well set up, and what I don't know is how reliable it is after that, whether it will stay dialed in. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1772 |
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And that is why I chose the path most taken. Joe has the mind and the patience to tackle the turbos.
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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So after a quite a few years of sitting in the back of my dungeon - being pushed so far down the priority list that it was looking like a retirement project for my 12 year old nephew, Reidp decided it was time for us to show this girl a little love ... it took a couple hours to dig it out and swap trailers with her newer, bluer, but less complete sister,
Eventually i got her back out in the fresh air, cleaned off the dust and hooked her up to the truck for a trip to the pinkham boat spa... A quick 700 miles south and she was ready to get some attention from a legion of ccfans ducking a hurricane.. Reid really knows how to polish the pipes Post polish and ready for power Mrs. Trbenj was ready for a boat ride after three days in the shop... any boat ride... Barracuda Brad, Reidp, and Adam Deen trying to pick out which rebuilt and prettied up vintage marine power plant to drop in... hey you guys big girls need attention too... Engine plumbed wired and ready to go... We were actually there to work on the Benjamins skier so the completion and ride of the wildcat will have to wait a bit longer ... but maybe someday Trbenj will update the story of this one |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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What a beautiful boat!
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Barracuda
Moderator Group Joined: November-17-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 998 |
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Very cool boat!
It was an honor working with you guys in the BBC that rainy day. Looking forward to hearing the Chrysler roar! -Brad |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1772 |
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Looks good Joe! How much longer do we have to wait to hear one of those Chryslers spool up set of whistlers? I hope its in line before your 14 year old nephews retirement project!
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Speaking of which, does anyone know what happened with the CC with the big block Mopar that had a set of turbos installed on it? The owner also owned a Chrysler dealership. I'm going to have to go searching for that thread!! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21168 |
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Lol get with it Pete.
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Well those turbos wouldn't play nice with this engine as the compression on this one is too high. The hope is to put them on another 440 and drop it in the brighter blue twin to this boat seen above... its a 70ish marauder so it seems a fitting home considering where they originated. |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1772 |
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Pete. Stop the search! They were on my Marauder before I got it. I knew I would never get them together again so I sent the parts to Joe hoping he would. I was hoping for some sort of timeline but it sounds as if he has a few projects ahead of it.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Tim, Thanks for helping me with your fantastic memory. Some including myself do have a hard time remembering at times I certainly hope yours holds as you age. Also, thanks for filling in the blanks with who had the Mopar with the turbo's You are always helpful. Bill, Thanks for filling in the blank spaces!! |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1772 |
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Anytime Pete...anytime. Now about that discussion we had last week regarding you pulling tubes from lifting rings on the stern and putting "Air Nautique" graphics on your Atom Skier? Are you sure you want to do that? Or has that slipped from memory?
BTW- Total sarcasm there ^ Believe me, I am laughing with you not at you! You have forgotten (no pun intended) more than I will ever pretend to know about Correct Crafts! Thanks for sharing that knowledge. |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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If anyone knows what I had for breakfast please fill me in, I can't remember. So in apples to apples boats, who would win, high compression 426 N/A or twin turbo 440? Estimated HP for each? |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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So in apples to apples boats, who would win, high compression 426 N/A or twin turbo 440? Estimated HP for each?
Unfortunately too many variables there to come close to finding out… The motor going into this Wildcat is a 413 with compression in the strong side of 10. How it runs out will depend a lot on the reground cam in it and how well we can tune it on 93 to run out and not blow up. Having not built it myself and not having a reliable spec sheet it is hard to guess on HP… but it should do considerably better than the stock 280 hp, 330 to 360 would be the hope. How fast you can make a boat go with that hp depends on how well the prop matches the torque curve of the boat. The M&W Gear twin turbo kit that came with Bills boat was intended to add 15-20% hp over the stock configuration. You could do things that would make that number higher, but you would find the limits of the engine internals quicker. I have a 440 in running condition that was 330hp stock that would be a good donor for that kit – I have to pull it out and tear it down for inspection over the winter to make sure she is healthy enough for the process. It is in a boat with a billion hours and has been operated on to some extent over the years based on the paint colors so no telling what its current hp maybe though. If it was a stock 330 the turbos could get it to the 390 range. All things being equal you can get more hp per cu in out of a turbo motor than a NA motor but bottom end strength and balance are going to eventually apply some hard limits – even if you get the tuning right so you don’t detonate it to death or melt pistons. |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Thanks Joe, very interesting info. I'm suspect of how much a turbo or turbos can add in boat applications where we spin up over 4,000 rpm and stay there at high speeds. How much extra breathing can happen in boats with wet exhaust going through risers, plus the limits on how aggressive a cam can be run seem like they might defeat some of the turbo's design benefit.
Did the 413 start out as a 426, and got decked? Or something else? |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21168 |
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dwcar
Platinum Member Joined: February-11-2007 Location: Houston Texas Status: Offline Points: 1103 |
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Good looking boat!
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83Ski
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Good point! I'll learn, I'm just VERY slow ....... And thank you for the link, interesting read. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6150 |
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That thing looks so good out in the open Joe. Motor is pretty too!! should be loud with 10+ comp big block.
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skyfuzz
Senior Member Joined: August-17-2004 Location: South Florida Status: Offline Points: 239 |
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Very nice job on that Wildcat restoration! Looks immaculate!
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7613&sort=&pagenum=1
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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From another thread..
At the moment that story is to be continued. We started to break it in over the winter but the boat was leaking badly from an exhaust hose. It was later found to have water in the oil. We attempted to address that problem when we got to NC by replacing a couple exhaust manifold gaskets and it looked pretty promising that had solved the problem. However the timing and the ignition conversion seemed to be a bit wonky and we were lacking the parts/tools to get it dialed in so tim and Zach picked a compromise spot with the distributor I was half planning to leave it on the trailer at gregs but figured it was a good boat to hold my gear and cooler and there were plenty of tow boats to bring it back. Generally it ran pretty good all weekend - Gary had pulled up the floor and replaced the rotten hose with some copper pipe and the boat sounds magical and is big and comfy. It handles waves better than I expected and the flip up windshield is good protection in a rain storm or colder ride and allows all kinds of air in when the sun comes out. Its even a fairly respectable trick ski boat. However, it doesn't appear to be charging - has a early style cooling system that was burning off paint all weekend, and died on Sara while waiting for the trailer to be brought to the ramp at the end of the last day out and wouldn't restart. I didn't see any water in the oil on Sunday morning so I figured we were in the clear there and hoped that a quick switch to a points distributor and finding out the true location of top dead center would have it ready for fall cruising and let us know how she could really run out. But that didn't happen... while I was using a piston stop to find top dead center (it was 30plus degrees off of the old mark) I found a bunch of water in cylinder 8, and evidence that there had been some small amount running through 3. The water in 8 I might well have sucked in rotating the engine back and forth. I am still optimistic that its related to exhaust manifolds as the compression test is more than excellent on all the cylinders at this point. Water in the cylinders should either be a result of something that effects compression or be due to leaky manifolds. I have it sitting there drained and lubed - I will have to pressure test, clean up, paint up, and swap in the entire later model cooling system that was original to the 426 that came in the boat. Will do the same with the ignition and charging systems and give her another go - racing against winter though and jegs sent my Chrysler green paint order to someone else and now has to get more from the factory... |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1772 |
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Oh the sweet sound of power!
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2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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Sounds good!
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Time is running out to get in a test drive... but I did tow this boat home originally in an ice storm so a little snow shouldn't discourage anything.
Lonely at the boat launch... We were initially thwarted by a chunk of ice in one of the intake lines, but survived... Idle at launch The boat seemed reliable enough to head out onto the cold empty lake - hoping not to need paddles to get us home - once out there it was apparent that getting the timing straight made the boat a lot stronger both out of the hole and on the top end... Tims turn to drive The best we could so was a bit over 45mph at 4200ish rpm with a 14x14 federal... not bad - but the prop is a bit close to the hull and there is no reason to think this boat shouldnt be able to see closer to 4800 so maybe a acme 540 next time out... 45.8 I think By this time I was getting a little worried that there might be a lot of water in the crankcase and that it would be no fun to paddle in so we cruised back to the dock enjoying the sweet sounds of the BBC... Cruising back Oil looks better than the last time, but the jury is still out for now as it only got the one cold drain and refill - hopefully it keeps in the right direction. |
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