Custom 1965 Correct Craft Mustang build |
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Mojo
Grand Poobah Joined: December-06-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3104 |
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Jim,
Not that I have really any knowledge or otherwise helpful info to share with you on this, but have you really asked members on here or others with short hull ski boats if these trim rams even work on these boats? I've seen the old fixed trim plates on old inboard boats but never these huge things you are proposing to use.. I would find out awhole lot more before you drill holes in the boat just to find out that they may actually make the ride worse.. Its just a suggestion.. I think you did a wonderful job on the resto, and only my personal view, but they really take away from the boat (basically a nice way of saying they are ugly as hell) ... I think the transom will actually shed a tear when the first hole is drilled.. Anyway, good luck, hope it solves your problem and if it gets you out on the boat more, more power to ya... |
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05' SV211 TE
73' Martinique had:96' SNOB had:76' Nautique had 77 Tique |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Thanks!
Okay since someone asked I'll explain why it looks like I'm trying to reinvent the wheel! The kit I ordered has special short rams that aren't avalible in the other kits. Drawback to just ordering the rams is that they are the same price as a complete kit... So then I'm stuck with the trim tabs it came with and I can either buy the proper tabs (119 each) and I would still have to modify them slightly to accept the smaller rams. As for the geometry, the actuators are actually still close to the regular angle that they are normally mounted at, I think it just looks steep because they are mounted so close to the tail of the tab. I also have the tab more "retracted" than is probably necessary, but the tab has a lot of travel and it doesn't take much to stop the problem I'm experiencing. Mastercraft actually had a cavitation tab in the early 2000's that had an extension bracket mounted off the edge of the tab making the ram very close to parallel with the bottom of the boat. As for the back of the boat and reinforcement, I'm not sure yet. I don't remember how thick the glass is back there. If it's thick enough where the factory screws that came with the kit easily pierce through to the inside of the boat then I'll probably layup some 3/4" ply |
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Eether
Groupie Joined: October-20-2015 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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Nice job on the boat, I've read the thread in its entirety and it's impressive!
OK, not a criticism, just curious... It looks like from the pictures that you are significantly changing the moment arm from the original trim tab design. That -looks- like it may induce a lot more stress to the transom as well as exacerbate any slop in the hinge/mounting points etc. I'm no engineer, and don't have a clue as to the stresses involved at speed, but at the very least I'd consider beefing up the tab structure beyond 12 Guage it is now. Are you planning on glassing a backing plate in on the transom? Again, just curious.. |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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This is fairly close to exactly where the tabs will go. The top of the actuator will be just below the waterline. aesthetically, this was well worth it to me, not just because I hate the way the cylinders look but I think it makes the back of the boat look too "busy" when they are mounted up high.
End result the tabs will probably be mounted another 1/2 inboard. The mockup on the boat is with cardboard. I have a guy that will probably bend them up for me. I made them trapezoidal to lower the surface area of normal 9x12 tabs because that would be a little oversized for the boat in my experience. The mockup is showing them fully retracted. |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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I believe it's a 1938? Zobel sea fox. As far as I know this boat is referred to a " Jersey speed skiff". Sorry for the confusion, I'm just making small talk about a boat I drove. It's just funny that somebody put tabs on a boat that could never benefit from it, awesome boat though, if you turn the steering wheel all the way in idle it will spin perfectly in place! I don't believe the tabs would help the top speed at all in my boat with just me in it, it feels about as close to perfect at 55mph. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Larry,
I'm as confused as you are. No apples to apples and you don't put many people in a Jersey plus the hull shape as mentioned is completely different. I've driven both the reproduction Jersey as well as an original and the handling isn't even close to the 60's CC 's. |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6107 |
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OK, Im a little confused now. How did we get from a 1938 boat that went 12 mph to a boat called a Zobel Sea Fox that is called a Jersey Speed Skiff. I can only speak to Jersey Speed Skiffs. Been familiar with those for years. ReidP/Race City Marine has owned two of them/does own one of them. The earlier of the two, several of us had a chance to ride in at one of the gatherings at Reids. We're not comparing plates on a ski boat to plates on a racing boat are we? Doesn't seem apples to apples to me. Speed skiff is designed to go 70s-80s and the plate helps it ride better...though you would never know, since it spends most of its time with nothing in the water but the prop and rudder. Plates on a ski boat to help it stop porpoising in the 40s, why not, give it a try. To help it go 60+, probably not wise, as has been suggested above. Trying to get these boats to go faster is fine, if that's what you want to do. Trying to get them to go faster than they should go is reckless. If you want to go 70+, get a boat that is designed to go 70+. They are a hoot.
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Jim,
For the convenience of others, here's a proper link. |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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It was a neat boat, called a Zobel sea fox. Theyre called Jersey Speed Sniffs, people used to hop them up back in the 20's-40s but I think today most of the ones that are raced are new construction. 2 odd features about the boats is that they are completely flat on the bottom and have a steering wheel that comes straight out of the floor. The one we take care of has a modest 40hp. Here's a website about them and a pic of the one I take care of.
http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/JerseySpeedSkiffs.htm |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6107 |
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Kind of like the "spoiler" on my Toyota Corolla. I feel much safer knowing my rear end isn't going to go flying up in the air.
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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I've only run across a couple sets of those, one set was on a 1938. Don't know why it had them, it only goes about 12mph... |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
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Someone along the line added them to my Marauder....they are the manual type that are set with a bolt.......I have never tried setting them different and don't know if they make one bit of difference. I also don't get past 43-45 mph. But with a few people in the back at WOT it hops down the lake like a wild amusement park ride!
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74Wind
Grand Poobah Joined: August-02-2011 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 2101 |
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My brother put tabs on his 72 Southwind 20 about 10 years ago which dramatically improved the wake, and has had zero trim tab related problems or issues since. |
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1974 Southwind 18
1975 Century Mark II |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Just realized I never showed you guys the two motors I got over the summer. The one out of the tan Mastercraft is a standard 351w PCM that was sitting for 12 years in Texas. It would need a total rebuild but is complete. The other is a 351w Holman Moody that kinda runs but needs lots of love, compression OK but fuel and ignition need a lot of work. Hoping to come across a first Gen mastercraft or first Gen nautique hull or barracuda for the Holman Moody someday. Both are in my tent with the boat. Both boats got brand new fully dressed chevys.
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Considering just about every inboard from the mid 90's to present was offered trim tabs from the factory it's not crazy to believe that the instances of bow steer and chine lock are relatively low on factory or modified boats. Especially considering I personally know about 80 people with inboards (about 20 with trim tabs) and the only accidents with injuries I've learned of were related to crashing into land (2 instances) or fire (1 instance). To negate trim tabs as a reputable solution is completely absurd and the fact that they do work isn't up for discussion in my thread because I have seen them work flawlessly to solve the exact problem I'm experiencing. I too thought them a poor solution, but only due to the stigma some have to them on this website, I found that my real world first hand experience they are a great solution.
If you feel that strongly against trim tabs, just leave my thread. Now onto the tabs! My kit came in the mail today, some quick measurements assured me that I will be able to mount these below the waterline no problem, which is very important to me as I HATE the black plastic. May even paint all the black Perfection white, but that's much later on. The tabs themselves are 12 wide by 4 long which obviously won't work, still have to decide if I'll cut and weld these tabs or buy 9x12s. It's 10 degrees outside so I'm not sure when I'll start this project. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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This friend like many of us grew up from a very young age behind the helm and had thousands of hours experience before the accident. Chine lock can happen suddenly is certainly unexpected and can happen at low speeds. What I didn't mention is he too had a full boat of passengers, told me he was at about 35 and knowing him was never a "yahoo slamming the throttle down". |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4239 |
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I think you are missing some points. Jim sounds like a very experienced driver and someone who has worked on a lot of different hull types - he's not some yahoo slamming the throttle down and seeing what happens. He is trying to correct a porpoise happening at around 30. The idea isn't to put the tabs down at 50, in fact he says in an earlier post that he will warn the Chris Craft owner of the dangers of over-tabbing. I think he'll approach this cautiously.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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David, Absolutely! I feel you are forgetting about the modified shaft angle, all the warnings about the nose down problems that tabs can produce plus the added HP! Have you forgotten the problems peter1234 had with just the added HP?? Would you load your modified boat up with a bunch of people and not have insurance? |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4239 |
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Jim, keep up the good work and let us know how the tabs work out.
Pete, was that question really necessary? When other guys on the site put more HP to their little hulls than they were ever intended to handle, I haven't seen you ask them about their insurance status. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Jim, Are you insured especially for liability? |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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I'm using the trim tabs to accommodate more people
The trial and error of changing props, shaft angles ect. MAY solve the issue of having more people in the boat, or it could cause the boat to slow down, flip at high speed, who knows Boat drives great with just me in it, the amount of time effort and money in changing the shaft angle and prop to possibly fix one problem, when I know for a Fact the tabs will solve it, doesn't make much sense to me |
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peter1234
Grand Poobah Joined: February-03-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2756 |
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you know its bad when your 18 yr old calls you from the lake and says dad can you come over here ? i am never driving this thing again
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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4239 |
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Kind of like the old Mutual of Omaha Wild Kingdom - Marlin stays safely in the tree stand while Jim fights the wildebeest. Only in this case "let's film safely from shore while _______ (fill in Peter, Tim, Joe, Reid, etc.) drives the 16 ft. CC at 60 mph". |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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But someone still has to be the test pilot to figure out if it's set up properly. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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This hull can run fast relatively safely- when set up properly. I do not believe trim tabs are a means to that end.
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