Slalom Comments/Suggestions Please |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Posted: August-14-2012 at 3:18am |
Let me know what you think I'm doing right/wrong, what to work on. I'm a 50 year old open water skier who's never had a lesson. This was 15 off at 32, I probably ski better at 33. I'm on a 67" Radar Senate.
I tried a run at 22 off and was hitting the wake bump pretty hard. Should I stay at 15 off and speed up to 34 before trying 22 off? I'm in better skiing shape than I've been in a very long time, no major injuries right now, so I'd like to work to get better. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3363 |
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You are ready for a stance makeover!
Your stance was off before you begin cutting.. Hip were low and behind you, And very heavy on the rear foot. Stand on that front foot, hard. Use all that ski. I want to see the water break by your front toes. Right now it looks about your front heel. Roll the shoulders back, chest up Throw the hips forward, up to the handle. If you think they are too forward, they are halfway there! You should feel your midsection between your elbows. When you get it, you will know it, because you will zing with 1/3 the effort. Right now you can only pull as strong as your lower back muscles are. Correct that 'hinge' from folding, and you will use your skeletal strength instead. If you feel yourself crush after a wake cross, glide out and reset the stance, rinse & repeat Good luck, rip it up! |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
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harddock
Platinum Member Joined: June-04-2008 Location: Toontown, MA Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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I came across this on Ball Of Spray. Hope it helps.
Posture |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Thanks guys, very helpful, that's what I'm looking for, things I can work on.
Tom, I definitely get the moving more weight to my front foot. I forget to do it, but used to, and just need to remind myself to get the weight on the front foot and let the ski turn fast and hard on it's own. The hips/posture stuff will take some time, hope to get out over the next couple of days to give it a try. Interesting read Kevin! |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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M3Fan
Grand Poobah Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
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It takes time. Doesn't actually look that bad at all- I've certainly seen worse. You have some good fundamentals there.
Keep on the water as much as you can. There are about 500 ways to tell someone to get into the correct slalom stance but in reality it's something that needs to be felt and that will come with time. Trying big, drastic stance changes can cause the opposite effect sometimes, leading to the big bell-ringing-out-the-front falls so take it one step at a time. Here are a couple of vids with neat drills to try next time you are on the water: Seth Stisher Whip Drill Seth Stisher Pull-out Drill Seth explains whip drill |
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2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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One other question - when I bought the bindings, I set them up as suggested by the guy at H2OProShop. Should I move the front binding forward one screw hole, along with getting more weight on the front foot? I can post a picture of the ski if that helps.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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M3Fan
Grand Poobah Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
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There should be a factory boot distance, which is measured from the back of the heel rubber to the back of the ski. That's where it should be. Moving the boots forward to get more forward can be a slippery slope and is not always a logical move. Forward to back boot movement of the front boot controls the bite of the off-side turn, mainly- it doesn't necessarily correct stance. |
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2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
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parrott
Senior Member Joined: July-22-2009 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 185 |
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As a 55 year old, I am impressed. I don't seem to be able to do what I did at 25
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1999 Air Nautique
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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I got out this morning, was able to try a few things. The weight on the front foot comes pretty easily, and the ski turned much faster. I think I got my shoulders back a bit, but the hips forward part seems the hardest to get done.
I got this ski last fall, it turns and accelerates so much faster than my late '80's O'Brien I skied on before, I used to have to put a lot more effort into making the turn. One other thing I think I'm doing is turning too narrow. I've got to get into a course to understand how wide I should be going, seems like I need to head out a few more feet. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Gary, I'm so happy to be feeling good and able to get into skiing shape this year. I skied a ton until I was around 30, then not nearly as much, and from 2001 on barely skied at all due mostly to injuries. I got back into it a few years ago, but this is the first summer I've skied steadily a few times a week. My struggle is getting up on the ski! Looks silly sometimes as I nearly fall getting up, at least I ski well enough to stop the laughter once I'm up! |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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parrott
Senior Member Joined: July-22-2009 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 185 |
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I skied seriously until around 30. Traded in the boat for a family. I started back about 5 years ago and still love it. However, I ski on combos, a little slalom (the boring kind..just back and forth). Afraid I might break if I barefoot and would definately not jump anymore..LOL I am just now learning to wakeboard...slow and steady
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1999 Air Nautique
1992 Nautique 1978 Nautique |
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harddock
Platinum Member Joined: June-04-2008 Location: Toontown, MA Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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I hear ya brudda! I can't do what I did @ 40. Walking is a chore. Time for some new parts (knees) |
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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David your form looks pretty good to me or maybe mine is just a lot worse. I am a few years older than you and try to keep in shape but always seem to be training around injuries. Just part of getting old in the next few months I hope to put some real gym work in aimed at skiing this summer.
I have a late 90's Connelly RS2 ski that I am thinking about upgrading. I rode a Connelly Concept last year and it felt much better than mine but it was a bit small 66" mine is a 69" (195lbs 6'2"). Never see a course just mainly free skiing. Also I am a bit rear foot heavy like you but that comes from combining skiing and boarding, where you tend to keep a bit more weight on your rear leg to stop catching a edge and faceplanting. Lots of good info in this thread so far that I think I can also use. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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I'm the same size Mark, 6'2" 200 lbs. My O'Brien was 68", a reasonably high end ski in it's time, and I was very comfortable on it. Last summer I tried my friend's HO Coefficient X, 69", and it felt really pretty similar, very easy to ski on and get up on. I got the Radar Senate 67" used from a very nice guy on this site, bought bindings, and gave it a go. What I hadn't realized on those other 2 skis was how much power I was putting into turning and building speed. This ski turns so much quicker, but the even bigger difference is after the turn you fly across the wakes, the acceleration is very cool. The first few times I skied on it I couldn't get ready for the next turn, took a while, now I love it. That's one thing I'd say about trying skis, of course it makes sense to try a ski before you buy, but I think if you don't try it 3-4 times you might think you have the wrong ski just because it doesn't feel like your old one.
The one downside is getting up. It's smaller at 67", plus isn't a widebody ski, so I struggle a bit. Well worth the 4 second struggle for the performance when sking though! Yes, injuries are the problem. My right knee is reconstructed (ACL), left achilles re-attached, left bicep tendon re-attached. Given all that I feel very fortunate to be as active as I am, a product of good doctors and good rehab. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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David not only are we same size but our injury history also matches. Considering we have the same 98 Sports we maybe twins separated at birth.
The smaller ski I got up on last year required a lot more effort and I had to wait a bit longer before trying to stand otherwise I would put the nose under. I start with both feet in which makes starts a bit harder they say. I really must learn the dragging a leg method it may help me ski a few years longer. Your start on the video looks effortless. Sorry to hijack your thread but just found a good deal on this ski. Connelly V The step base sounds a bit like the MC idea (gimmick). Has anyone tried one? I like that it is a bit wider(easier starts)and a good 34mph ski which is where I am skiing at the moment. I know I should probably slow down and get my form correct, but the wake is better at that speed. This seems like the level of ski I should move onto as I will not be breaking any world records behind a new SN200. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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harddock
Platinum Member Joined: June-04-2008 Location: Toontown, MA Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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The INT league has a class called wide ride. The ski is bigger in both length and width and the speed is slower. Skiers are having fun and skiing at shorter rope lenghts than they do in regular slalom.
You may want to try a bigger ski and a slower speed. |
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dochockey
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2009 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 638 |
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When your asking to go from 15 off to 22 are we just talking open skiing? or are we talking skiing the course ?
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1989 Teal Ski Nautique
1967 Mustang Harris Float Sunfish |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Just open skiing. I'd love to get on a course but not many around, my friends and I are talking about getting something set up for next year on one of the local lakes. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Mark, that for some reason was one of my easier starts, 1st run of day. This one is a better example:
I don't know anything about that ski, hopefully someone will comment. If you go for it, the next question is whether to get 67" or 69". A year ago I would have said 69", but after talking to the guy at H20Proshop he convinced me I'd ski better on 67", and I'd say he was right. I'm sure the 69" would be easier to get up on though. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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dochockey
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2009 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 638 |
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ya know at our age your doing just fine if you were to ski competition you would be at 34 so stay at 15 and ski at 34. When you get your course set up you will then learn how to stand on your ski
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1989 Teal Ski Nautique
1967 Mustang Harris Float Sunfish |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Mark, look at ballofspray.com, click on gear reviews, and the last one down is the 2011 Connelly V. Sounds like a great ski for the price in that review.
Kirk, I slowed down, skied at 33 or 34 until recently dropped to 32 to try to get better form. I'll give 34 a go over the next week. The way it looks on our lake, the only people on a slalom ski will be over 50 pretty soon. Not much skiing going on that I can see. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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David I thought you had the rope on the wrong side of the ski for a moment there. Then I realized you were "goofy" right foot forward.
Thanks for that web site review link. They were glowing in the praise for the ski. I think I will jump on the deal for that ski. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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I know it has been discussed before but can not seem to find it. Correct handle grip for slalom I have always used two hands normal grip (both palms down). Since I am going to give my swerving a make over this year. I thought I would go to the correct handle grip. But which hand is palm down and which is palm up?
I noticed David in the video above has the palm up on the same side as forward foot i.e Right foot forward right arm palm up. Since I am left foot forward would I have my left hand palm up? A couple of video's Joel linked to appear to be the opposite to this. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6130 |
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This came up recently but not sure where the thread is, and once before that on a much more technically focused thread. "According to the experts" if you are left foot forward, you "should" be left palm down, right palm up.
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AAM196
Gold Member Joined: October-23-2012 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 846 |
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looks good man!
Hips up and use the ski. It should look more rythmic and the turns should look a little less forced. I hope I am skiing/footin thru my 50s! rythmic skiing |
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Screwy Lewy, what's up down under??
You definitely want to change up to a baseball bat grip for slalom. Larry has it correct however I do believe what the pro's recommend now was not the same in our younger days of skiing. I am right foot forward and right palm up. Have tried switching it up and can't, old habits die hard I guess. David, since you are only free skiing try different rope lengths, you might find the wake friendlier at 22 off then 15 off. Looks like you are skiing from the top of an extended pylon, you will feel more give there on the down side, may help a bit on your starts on the upside. Your driver could use a little help also, when you fall, driver should throttle back to idle speed going straight, then make his turn idling back the entire way, in a perfect world that is!! |
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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if you get the ski flatter quicker (not too flat as the bury the nose) you should be able to get up quicker than 4 seconds. I'm 6'1" 215lbs and I can get up on a 67" obrien sixam and it really isnt a struggle. It takes longer but if you get the angle and your weight right it really shouldnt be that hard. I have gotten up with 6 people in my 86 as well, it wasnt any harder. Seemed like you driver may have been light on the accelaration, we usually just punch it, no dragging or easing up.
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Quinner, there's 2 different boats in the videos. The failed attempt video is my Sport just a week or 2 after I got it last fall, had the rope on the top of the extended pylon. Since then I only attach to the notch on the pylon at the normal ski rope height. The 1st video is on my friend's 206. Skiing 22 off at 32 on the 206 has a really hard bump, difficult to ski through. My Sport is softer at that length and speed.
Justin, it seems like if you hammer the throttle on my Sport it's a bit too much pull too quick, need to roll into the throttle a bit more steadily. I'd be curious to hear if people with GT-40 boats generally just hammer it or not. I'm guilty of powered turns back to the skier at times myself. Do you say no because of safety or just that it creates wakes for the next skier? |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Full throttle or not is personal preference and won't necessarily help you get out of the water "easier", for some it may make it harder, particularly with a later model 300+hp inboard. Personally prefer a slower progressive throttle start.
Slow back to skier to not throw rollers all over the place, if it's a safety issue to cover up your skier then have at it. |
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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Ya I suppose that could be a preference thing. I had to build up to it, the first couple times it pulled me over but now I find that pop gets my fat butt up out of the water and in the correct position faster which then allows me to get up quicker. If I ever have trouble its because Im trying to muscle my way up (aka pulling up with my arms,etc.) and fighting the boat. |
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