Ford FE engine find

I picked up two original FE blocks today as cores for my project. Both are in good shape, need to decode the casting numbers. The block I plan to start with has stock FoMoCo 390 pistons but 360 con rods, strange... It also has castings for cross bolted mains, cool! This block has a date code that matches my intake and heads which is a plus. The other is dated 1965 with casting numbers that imply something different than what the pistons and con rods suggest which are all stock parts, but not necessarily original. Need to fully research these both. Both blocks were covered in greas by the previous owner to prevent corrosion. Also got some other odds & ends that I needed. My plan was to drop off all my parts at the machine shop tomorrow for cleaning and sonic checking but I need to be at work to handle some unplanned biz... I've got to catalog all this stuff and resell some. Or take to the scrap yard for beer money

No way it ran in reverse prior, since the reverse planetary does a gear reduction, it would have been very apparent something was very amiss.

For a RH engine, the pump cover needs to be reset to its opposite index, should be some diagrams in the BW manual in the reference section.
There are some csting marks on the pump cover to ID its location.

Since my last post I have been going through all of my parts and mapping out the build. This endeavor has proven to be a lengthy one, but fun no less. I have a block that will serve as my starting point and it is all set to go to the shop for cleaning and sonic testing. I disassembled the heads over the weekend and found at least 6 valves completely stuck, no movement. Had to carefully hammer them out. Knowing the heads will require a complete rebuild I wasn't terribly concerned. After getting everything completely apart I was able to fully inspect the valve seats and intake/exhaust chambers, lots of work ahead of me… I'll be doing new valve seats, valve guides and removing a few rusty broken bolts amongst other things. The heads and intake manifold go together and I'd rather not source another set of heads unless mine are found to be cracked. Trying to maintain consistent date codes.

As far as the bottom end is concerned, I picked up a set of factory forged Lemans rods. They have been bead blasted and magged. I have all the bottom end parts except pistons. Could someone let me know what they have run in the past? I have read many things about standard cast, hypereutectic and forged products. Not sure what is the best for marine applications of this nature.

Factory 390 rods next to the 427 Lemans rods.




More to come soon!

No - I contacted the guy a few times but couldn't stomach the $700 for used parts, especially aluminum. He said they were fresh water only; my loss is someone else’s gain... They were nice and I wanted them. The older style cast iron log manifolds and elbows are still available, they are better suited for my environment and cost same amount. I have been talking to two local shops about building my engine. I’d consider doing it myself but given the rarity of these parts I’m not going to risk it, money well spent.

[QUOTE=Cuda Chris] I have all the bottom end parts except pistons. Could someone let me know what they have run in the past? I have read many things about standard cast, hypereutectic and forged products. Not sure what is the best for marine applications of this nature.
QUOTE]

Chris,
Personally, I wouldn't run anything but forged in a marine application. The constant load that a marine engine is under is what forged pistons were designed for.
For my stroker build the entire rotating assembly is forged.

backfoot100 wrote: [QUOTE=Cuda Chris] I have all the bottom end parts except pistons. Could someone let me know what they have run in the past? I have read many things about standard cast, hypereutectic and forged products. Not sure what is the best for marine applications of this nature. QUOTE] Chris, Personally, I wouldn't run anything but forged in a marine application. The constant load that a marine engine is under is what forged pistons were designed for. For my stroker build the entire rotating assembly is forged.

Hmmm,,, food for thought. What brand pistons would you recommend?

Cuda Chris wrote: backfoot100 wrote: [QUOTE=Cuda Chris] I have all the bottom end parts except pistons. Could someone let me know what they have run in the past? I have read many things about standard cast, hypereutectic and forged products. Not sure what is the best for marine applications of this nature. QUOTE] Chris, Personally, I wouldn't run anything but forged in a marine application. The constant load that a marine engine is under is what forged pistons were designed for. For my stroker build the entire rotating assembly is forged. Hmmm,,, food for thought. What brand pistons would you recommend?

Guess it really depends on what you're planning to do with it. Stock sized pistons or overbore? What compression ratio are you looking to achieve? The size of the heads, size of the gaskets, rod length, deck height and shape of the pistons will all affect the static compression ratio so you need to plan accordingly.
Just about any good quality piston will work depending on your application. JE, Ross or Mahle immediately come to mind. Here's a good example of planning accordingly:

I used Mahle. They came as part of a kit from Eagle. They were specifically matched to a stroker crank with longer than stock 6" H-Beam rods. The Mahle's are a good piston but they have a short skirt and are lighter weight compared to standard pistons. The only drawback is that they have very specific rings you have to use and the piston pin keeper assemblies are difficult to ensure they are seated right.

I specifically wanted to have the rotating assembly internally balanced instead of the normal external balance on a 383 (without going through a very expensive process of drilling out and adding weight to the crank). That particular kit was one of the very few I found that had parts as stout as I wanted and specifically said it could be internally balanced. After it was all said and done, my machinist said he would have never been able to internally balance the rotating assembly with any other piston...period.

So depending on what you want to do can determine what piston you can use. You have to do your homework first.

Cuda Chris wrote: I have a block that will serve as my starting point and it is all set to go to the shop for cleaning and sonic testing.

Chris,
Tell me more about the sonic testing. I've never heard of the procedure but maybe that's because I'm "old fashioned"!!

I cribbed this description of sonic testing, used to determine material thickness and integrity...

"The mode of operation of a sonic tester is easy to understand. Essentially it comprises a sending/receiving probe and a box of electronics to analyze a signal return time. When sound encounters a sudden change of material density in its path, it is reflected. If the speed of sound through the material/medium is known, then the distance to that change in density can be accurately determined by measuring the time it takes for the sound to return to its source. Given the right calibration, it is possible to measure the thickness of a section of cast iron or aluminum to less than five-thousandths accuracy"

Doing my homework is absolutely the truth. I have a RH cam, RH crank, rods and just need pistons. I need an assembly that is going to work together so I am choosing my parts carefully. Ive got this strange vision of using factory ford performance parts or what someone could have put their hands on when the boat was running around. Determining deck height, compression and gaskets will be the next step. Ive got to get the heads and block done which will help determine the aforementioned variables. Removing metal from the block and or heads as a corrective measure (if needed) will change things ever so slightly. Also, reading about high tensile strength forged pistons brings up even more about metallurgy, thermal expansion characteristics and other things I am not 100 percent up to speed on when it comes to engine dynamics. Considering whats best for sustained rpms and engine load characteristics are all things that are running through my mind. I might be over thinking some of this but the research is fun. Plus I like hearing from people on tried and true options.

Yep first step is block to get solid squared deck hight.Then1/2 stroke +rod length to determine compression height for piston .Then figure gasket thickness for proper quench to minimize detonation piston rock.Summit Racing has easy combustion calculator to match cylinder head volume,bore,stroke all just where you need it .

Cuda Chris wrote: Riley wrote: What kind of hp are you shooting for? Hahaha, good question. What ever the engine will do I guess, no goal in mind. At the end of the day the valve cover stickers will still say 285hp Interceptor. I want to build reliability and room for future improvements. Not crazy about a serious over bore but I'd consider it. I'm measuring potential gain to dollars I'll need to spend. The block I am starting with is a stock 390, so it depends on what I can safely and reliably get out of it.

You might want to put some long hard thought about hp/performance goals before you go too much further. If you decide that you dont value greater performance over pure originality (date code matched heads being one example) thats fine. Just be aware that there are most likely significant gains to be made in areas that you will not want to spend money on twice. Since youre going through the entire engine from top to bottom, now would be the time to make some big decisions before you spend a lot of time and $ acquiring parts or paying for machining and install costs.

Of course, the stock 285hp will push that Cuda along pretty well!

Riley wrote: 250 hp would be the proper decals for that boat. Dave hates it when people ask what the engine is in our Cuda and I tell them it's a 352. ReidP would be a good one to talk to as he has a rebuilt 390 in his Classic that's had some mods. It is a beautiful engine. It has high compression and different heads, compared to most stock marine FEs which are low compression and have 352 heads.

Thats right, the engine that was in this hull originally was a 250hp 352. You have been very helpfull providing me with the original specs. Since this is a repower, the engine going back in is going to be a mostly spec 285hp 390. With that said, I'll be doing a lot of little things to gain powere here and there but nothing significant.

Sounds like a great project. The velvet drive without a gear reduction is good for 310 HP, so your right in there. Also, to reverse the rotation, remove the 4 bolts on the front pump cover and rotate it 180 degrees. it can only be bolted in two ways, so don't worry about messing it up.

Thank you for the welcome. I am an owner. At present I have a '67 25' Pacemaker Express Cruiser that had a single Chevy 350 inboard. It's a project that I'm just getting going on. The boat was free, so you can just imagine! The motor is junk, sat with water in 5 cylinders, heads and intake, for two winters. Just a block of rust. The velvet drive tranny in on my bench right now. I'm learning about it and will try to save it. Like I said, it really is almost 180
Degrees that you turn the pump, maybe a little less. It can only be bolted on two ways and their are a arrows on the outside that indicate rotation direction. I have owned several boats since I was a kid. A 8' racer, a 12' 3-point hydroplane, 14' plywood utility, 16' White lap strake outboard, a 16' flat bottom work skiff for clamming, a '64 14 MFG Niagara, a 6 meter Century Riviera, a '67 CC Mustang and my Pace. I like boats!!