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91 Excel, reverse rotation engine?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 3:12pm
My 93 is PRP-WR and the firing order is exactly opposite, so same crank spinning the other direction. The V drive is what changed.

There's really no reason why a GT40 couldn't run backwards if you switched the cam and the distributor gear. That computer isn't smart enough to need to know the difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 3:15pm
This is from an 80's manual, so it's not complete with the later configurations, but the convention should be consistent.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1StopJeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 4:58pm
Okay, here is a picture of the engine plate from my boat. Looks like a reverse direction engine looking at the firing order.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 5:00pm
Yes, as indicated by the PRD as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1StopJeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by Air206 Air206 wrote:

Does this help - 1991 BFN..... Look at the engine tag. It provides rotation indication.



Interesting according to the plates both engines are Right hand rotation but have opposite firing orders.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 5:09pm
The 3rd digit is a clue as to why the firing orders are different (they are not opposite). Take a look at the decoder I posted above.

D = 351w
K = 454
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1StopJeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by 1StopJeff 1StopJeff wrote:

Originally posted by Air206 Air206 wrote:

Does this help - 1991 BFN..... Look at the engine tag. It provides rotation indication.



Interesting according to the plates both engines are Right hand rotation but have opposite firing orders.


Ah, one is a Ford and one is Chevy and the cylinder numbering is different.

Now Benj, the R does not indicate Reverse but Right-hand from the back... of the motor? Which would be the same as Reverse?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 5:14pm
Cylinder number and firing orders are very different between a small block Ford and big block Chevy, yes.

Right hand rotation (clockwise as viewed from the rear) is in fact reverse rotation, correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1StopJeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 5:27pm
Eureka! So any recommendations on cam and intake to go along with the GT40p heads?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 5:43pm
Not to hijack but is it safe to say none of the Ford small block motors,righty or lefty's had roller cams? Do they have the spider mounts in the valley? Thought I remember something about this but you know my memory
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 6:06pm
Ok, Don & Jeff:

Try not to envy my "K"..... Ha!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 6:18pm
I believe 94- blocks have bosses to be drilled and tapped for the spider mounts for the lifter dog bones (per Gun-driver).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 6:26pm
Personally I think it is safe to say that no H.O. Fords, gt40 or not were reverse rotation and that no sbf pcm engines ever had a roller cam, although later ones 95ish+ could have had the cast bosses and holes (although not drilled or tapped) for the spider gears. The lightning got them in 94, 94/95s with standard power could have been leftovers, but by the time you got to gt40s they were likely using the new blocks everywhere. With the 302s they made two seperate blocks for 5 years until they consolidated, with the 351ws they probably just changed all the mold tooling up front.    

Anyway I figure the original poster needs to go to cam research for a cam, and pick up a weiand stealth or performer rpm manifold… and if they are feeling froggy some 1.7:1 roller rockers … anyone else with a suggestion or two ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 6:41pm
I agree with those upgrades, joe. I also agree that there were no marine ford windsors (at least no pcms) that ever got roller cams. I bet there are some HO RH engines though- doesn't Randy have a proboss and 1:1 in his 93 Sport?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 6:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 6:56pm
True statements Tim and Joe.
As far as the roller block, the block # that distinguishes it as roller capable is F4TE found above the starter mount.
I have verified that my '95 has that block number.
Below is a link to Ebay that has a good pic of one with the lifters in. You can mouse over the pic and zoom in on the valley.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-351W-WINDSOR-ROLLER-CAM-BARE-BLOCK-ENGINE-F4TE-/221414538854?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item338d55be66#ht_1329wt_1057
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 6:57pm
Steve, why would I want one of those?

There are right handed Pro Boss motors, I have one.   The marine motors have a bigger cam and more power than the Lightning so they probably figured no need to step up to a new roller cam on a motor that was coming to an end.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 7:08pm
Don - You are RIGHT! You wouldn't...... ProBoss-like power of an upgraded 351w would be perfect. Good call!   

Rod was surprised at how differently the Excels behave with all that extra weight back there......He kept the 351 cream puff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2014 at 7:18pm
yep I think it was Randy's engine that proved me wrong last time I said that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1StopJeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2014 at 3:08pm
Lots of interesting stuff. So somebody mentioned the performance (or lack there of) of the Excels and I would really like to fix that. So Gt40p heads with 1.7:1 roller rockers, go to Cam Research for a cam and a weiand stealth or performer rpm.   Any other suggestions? I am basically at sea level and can barely pull an in shape, 200lb. single skier out of the water in its current state.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2014 at 3:50pm
That is not right. What is your maximum RPM and MPH? Also, what prop do you have on there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1StopJeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2014 at 4:49pm
Stock prop, like 43MPH @ 4000RPMs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2014 at 5:03pm
If you don't have an Acme 328 then get that done first. I don't get out of the hole considerably quicker with the CHI upgrade, it did cut quite a few seconds from 12 to 40 and I have to be quick to not blow past my usual speed of 24 once it's on plane.    The 328 got us to where we use 1/2 throttle instead of full throttle to launch, the CHI wasn't needed, but I was changing the heads so I figured I might as well try to see if I could push it past 50 just for grins.

If you haven't spent a lot of time behind a big wake boat the stock Excel seems sluggish because you think it should move like a DD and it won't. It does move quicker than most every wake boat.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2014 at 5:11pm
We have figured out with a skier in tow Mark's footer planes faster at 1/2 throttle or so VS smacking it WOT because it doesn't continue to push the nose up with extra power. Once the nose goes down they accelerate like rockets and you have to pull power back fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1StopJeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2014 at 5:23pm
I had a '87 Chris Craft 21 foot Ski Jack. It was a big boat. It only have a 260hp 350 Chevy, granted it was in the middle with a jack shaft to a stern drive, but the boat was a deep V and weighed close to 2000lbs more than the Excel. I had a 5-blade stainless prop on that and it pulled out of the hole great. I figured I should at least get as good of out of the hole performance as the CC. I will definitely get the prop. So what is your top speed and rpms now with the prop and CHI?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Randy_in_Ohio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-21-2014 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

I agree with those upgrades, joe. I also agree that there were no marine ford windsors (at least no pcms) that ever got roller cams. I bet there are some HO RH engines though- doesn't Randy have a proboss and 1:1 in his 93 Sport?


Sorry I've been MIA... It's a long story that I won't go into on here. Anyway, I'm back from a long hiatus so I did a search on my name to see who's been talking about me and I came up with this thread!

Yes, I do have a RH engine in my '93 Sport. And yes, I think Joe was proved wrong about that fact! I know it was the original engine that came in my boat. From my understanding, my boat must have been produced early and they had these engines laying around and just used it?




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