95 SN Running Great, now won't start

Went out all day Friday. The boat is running like a Swiss watch! Went back out Saturday and she fired up with a quick turn of the key, immediately. Very strong start, no lagging at all. Backed off the trailer, ran down the lake with great power, everything working perfectly! Cool temps, perfect water!

So after about 30 minutes of running, we stop to float and swim. When we're ready to leave I go to start and nothing. Just a single click. Not even acting like it was trying to turn over. Gauges all come up, battery shows 12V (or maybe a little higher), stereo works great, but no starting.

The battery is one month old, not a deep cycle. And as I said, the first start of the day was effortless, running before the key popped back to the on position. Fired up with a roar!

Does the GT40 have a solenoid? It feels just like when I had a bad solenoid in a car. Just a single click and nothing else.

I really hate getting towed for an hour back to the ramp! But thank goodness for lake patrol!

Thanks! The battery cables are brand new, two weeks old. The old ones were so corroded that they would literally spin on the battery terminals even clamped all the way down.

I wish there was someone here on the board in the Houston area that was a PCM mechanic! I really want to learn some of this to do myself but unfortunately, I am not a mechanic and stand there and stare at the motor like an idiot! haha I have to rely on shops to diagnose.

From "over the years" experience, I would say that this is not a cable issue. I have new 10 gauge cables to the ignition and new, marine grade cable ends that have been wire brushed and tighten down to the brand new battery terminals. Like I mentioned, the boat gets power to the gauges and stereo and until the last time, started up with authority. No dragging and multiple clicks like I've heard from starters that just aren't getting quite enough battery to turn it over. This time, it's one small click only.

How can I find the neutral safety switch. I'm guessing if I have to ask that, it's above my level to repair. :) Can a novice replace the starter relay? How about the starter itself? I was happy with myself that I replaced the idle air control valve. But that is as difficult as I have gotten! Two bolts, a gasket and a plug.

I have a little brash brush, that looks almost like a toothbrush. If you can get yourself one of these, you can remove the connections, (one at a time so you don't lose track) around your starter etc. There is also a heavy ground strap that goes to the engine block. Remove them, brush off all the dirt and corrosion, and put them back.

The brush I'm talking about looks like the one in this set. This set is a little spendy for what it is, but I guess it gives you a full range of options:
http://www.mactools.com/en-us/Cutting-and-Scraping/Brush-Sets/BA5K/5-PC-Electrifix-Brush-Kit

Mac and snap one (and others I'm sure for cheaper) have wire wheel brushes that will go on a drill etc, that's another way to go about the cleaning.

The neutral safety switch is on the transmission. It should basically be the only thing with any sort of electrical connections going to the actual transmission.

On your GT-40 motor, there will be tons of electrical things going to the engine, but just that one set of wires going to the transmission.

Now, all a neutral safety switch does, is open or close, depending on whether or not the transmission is in gear. If the tranny is in neutral, it is safe to start, so the switch should be "closed" or "completed" allowing current to pass through.

As far as testing it, there a couple ways to skin that cat:

*The hack way: use a jumper test lead to connect the two terminals of the NSS thereby connecting them together and closing the switch. The downside of this is if the tranny actually is hung up in gear, the engine will start and you'll go barreling towards the nearest obstruction.

*The multimeter way1 (continuity):
Within the multimeter way, your best bet is if you have one with an audible continuity alarm. If the switch is working (closed in neutral), closed is continuous, therefore the continuity tone should sound when you probe both ends of the neutral safety switch. The only real downside of this is you should unplug both ends of the NSS (neutral safety switch), so other boat wiring stuff is not interfering.

The multimeter way2 (voltage): You set your voltmeter (multimeter) to 12volts dc. You take your ground side, and semi permanently connect it/touch it to a known good ground. This can be the battery negative, the engine block, etc. You'll need a helper to hold your ground side and turn the key. In this method, you'll use the positive probe to test both sides of the NSS. With the helper turning they key to start, you'll use your positive probe to probe both sides of the NSS. You should get voltage on both sides. If you get voltage one one side, and not the other (with the key in the start position), well then you've found your problem.

The test light way (similar to the multimeter voltage way): I actually prefer to use a test light, because the ground wire has a beefy alligator clip if it's a good one. This saves you from having to have a helper hold your ground side for you. In this case, you have your alligator clipped ground wire going to battery negative, or another good ground. Again, you have your helper turn the key to start, while you probe both sides of the NSS. The light should light on at least one side, confirming they key is sending voltage to the NSS.
-If it lights on one side and not the other, again, your NSS is faulty
-If it lights on neither side, the problem is upstream, likely they key
-If it lights on both sides, the NSS is good, move downstream to the solenoid.

Here's a link to a high quality test light:
http://www.mactools.com/en-us/Diagnostics-and-Testing/Circuit-Fuse-Testers/9cc1c443-bc4a-4f1b-ab24-a4df0151e88f/Circuit-Testers/ET111X/6-12V-Circuit-Tester

Went to the dealer. Turned the key and click. Turn again, click. Hit the starter with a wrench and it fired up. It's the original starter on the boat. It's bad.

We've had water pouring on it from what I thought was around the manifold bolts. The dealer told me that if water has been running onto the starter, he wouldn't bother putting on a new one since that will ruin the starter in about a month. Is that true? We were going to address the leaky manifold issue at the end of the season.

The dealer basically told me he didn't want the boat. He said they had 30 ahead of me, 5 new boat preps and he wouldn't even look at it for 3-4 weeks. And if it turned out that something needed to be done other than just a gasket and the starter, he didn't want to touch it.

So I left there--and I will never be back---and took the boat to a repair center that has received great reviews and took on many of the customers in town that didn't want to go to Conroe after the local Nautique dealer closed. I told him what the dealer said and he shook his head and said, "they only care about the new boats. We don't sell new boats. We just fix everything else." I like that attitude!

Two mechanics got in and started looking at the area where it was obvious water has been leaking for some time. I'm not sure if the previous owner knew what was going on but the first indication is that I may have two cracked heads from a poor winterizing (non existent) some time ago. The boat is running great! I can't believe that I would have cracked heads. He said not the heads that have to do with compression. I don't even know what that means. But OK. So he's tearing it down to check. Still hopeful that this is a gasket issue but starting to think I bought a lemon.

His comment doesn't make much sense. Maybe he is referring to the exhaust manifolds or risers. I have never heard of either of those parts referred to as heads though.

JoeinNY wrote: As for the starter, you could probably take that one apart and clean it out and get more service out of it.

Steve,
I agree with Joe on the starter. Considering all it took was a tap to get it going indicates brushes and commutator. Take it apart as mentioned and clean up the commutator. It's the segmented copper section at the end of the armature (the center part that turns). Without getting real involved which typically is making a cut on the lathe to reface it, just take a Scotchpad to it. Then replace the brushes.

post a pic of the leaky spot so we can see what the mechanic was referring to.

JPASS wrote: post a pic of the leaky spot so we can see what the mechanic was referring to.

I forgot to snap one before I left the shop. I just called them and the service guy will take a photo and email it to me. They're really good over there. I think I have found a shop I can trust. I'll reconfirm that AFTER the bill comes in! haha

I'll post the photo as soon as it arrives.

Steve,
Considering the water staining is above the head gasket area, it sure looks like the head does have a crack. Joe is correct that if it needs heads, the labor is going to cost you some $$$. The heads themselves aren't that bad since they are readily available remanufactured.

Steve, I did a google search on CCfan and came up with this thread. Lot's of options for heads!

Not sure what you looked at,last time I checked TriState did not have a listing anymore for the gt40p's they used to offer.The difference between TriState and Clearwater was basically the TriStates were blue printed heads,5 angle cut seats,larger intake and exhaust valves,new upgraded springs. Clearwater production builds stock heads. My TriStates at the time happened to be new castings which really dosen't matter.They also would not put brass core plugs in but when it's time I'll do them myself. Make sure if you buy heads from anyone tell them the head bolt holes need to be drilled for a 351's.Any of these companies heads will work for you and will be much better than the gt40s you replace.

There is no such thing as marine heads. The castings are the same no matter where you purchase them from, the core plugs should be brass to be used in a marine environment but the brass plugs are cheap and anyone would put them in for you if asked. The valve material on marine heads might be better as well but I doubt it on anything late model ford. The thing you need to be sure of is that the ones being quoted to you use either gt40, or gt40p castings otherwise you will be losing a lot of performance. I would be surprised if you were quoted gt40p marine heads because they were never used in any marine application. I would be surprised if you were quoted marine gt40 heads for less than 1200 for the pair, simply because I have never seen them cheaper.   I would refer to my earlier post... but if you really want to pay them to do this for you then definitely ask very specific questions about the heads being used.

Thanks Joe. Here's the First Mate page. Can you tell if these are GT40 heads? He told me he won't know which ones to get until they pull mine and get a number off of it. If he then tells Marshall that number, will he get GT40 heads?
http://cart.marshallengines.com/search/Index.php?SearchBy=Marine