95 SN Running Great, now won't start |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3592 |
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Posted: December-07-2015 at 5:06am |
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With proper care you should be good for another 1000 hours. Congratulations.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Thats great,glad you were able to work it out with them. While 3300 sounds like alot for us do it yourself hobbyists it seems like you got alot done and should be set for quite some time. Now go have fun!
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SteveHookEm
Senior Member Joined: July-17-2015 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 157 |
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Took her out today and she ran like a Swiss watch! Perfect! No more smoking, no more leaking, no more idle loping. Very happy!
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SteveHookEm
Senior Member Joined: July-17-2015 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 157 |
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Total: $3350 See my first reply above for all that was done. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3592 |
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Still a great looking boat, glad it is water bound again.
Can I ask what the final damage was? Hope it runs really strong. Keep it inside or do a great job of winterizing, we are in the cold time of year now. |
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SteveHookEm
Senior Member Joined: July-17-2015 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 157 |
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Thanks for all the help! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Steve,
Glad it worked out for you. |
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SteveHookEm
Senior Member Joined: July-17-2015 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 157 |
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Thanks! It better be good luck now or my wife will kill me. haha Can't wait to get her out on Saturday to run around! (the boat, not my wife) |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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That hurts, but it the beats the heck out of buying a brand new boat, or even a brand new engine.
Sounds like while you're in there, it made sense to replace anything with questionable mating surfaces. You wouldn't have wanted to worry about leaks after all that. I hope you have good luck from here forward. |
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SteveHookEm
Senior Member Joined: July-17-2015 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 157 |
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OK, boat is done and ready for pickup. Worked out a deal for them to use GT-40P heads. I had them replace the exhaust manifolds and elbows at the same time. When they were pulled, one manifold had a cracked bolt hole and was almost falling apart. All the parts were severely pitted where they mated to the gaskets. So I pulled the trigger to get new right now. And I got all new bolts.
So: New Starter New Solenoid New IAC valve New GT-40P heads New Manifolds New Elbows New Bolts New Gaskets Oil and Filter Water Test Labor $3350 |
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JPASS
Grand Poobah Joined: June-17-2013 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 2283 |
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That thing is clean and he's "asking" $3500. Could probably get it for $3K, |
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'92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique
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JayG80
Senior Member Joined: January-07-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 170 |
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What shop are you using? Here is a PCM low hour engine from 2000 Ski Nautique.
2000 PCM Marine Engines 5.8 HO Pro Boss GT-40 |
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2007 Ski
2002 Ski |
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desertskier
Platinum Member Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1114 |
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Most of the guys on this forum are die hard DIY'ers including myself. That being said I know many people that pay to have everything done and never work on anything they own, cars, boats, houses etc... There is nothing wrong with that other than it drives us DIY'ers crazy. From your pictures it looks like you have a very nice boat. It also sounds like you have found a decent mechanic as he doesn't want to take chances with parts that he can't warranty. I suggest that you work with your mechanic and get your boat up and running then never look back. It will be reliable and give you and your family years of enjoyment. Good Luck.
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Here is a suggestion:
Get the boat back, don't bother having the heads remounted. Buy the new parts (the guys here will help you with that). Wait until next spring. Show up at the St. John's river run with parts & a case of beer. My guess is you will be on the water that same day. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3592 |
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For about $1300 you could get a new set of Ford Racing GT 40 Aluminum heads. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3592 |
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You are in a bad spot but recovery is possible.
AER is an automotive Engine Rebuilder in Dallas, they are the largest rebuilder in the country and build for Ford, Nissan and GM to name a few Small customers. They could put out a set of heads locally for you and I bet they would have a set on the shelf for sale. Your shop is not giving you a fair deal. I would take the boat away before they empty your wallet. Needing new heads is not a big deal. There is no magic in a Marine Head compared to a Automotive head. Same casting exactly. A marine builder like PCM might add a little extra clearance in the valve guides because of how hard boats are run but I ran a set of Automotive heads on my 351W in a 78 Nautique for 600 hours and it was running great when sold. Get a new shop or make this a winter project. For the money you are considering you could buy all the tools you need and do this yourself. Use the very best parts and know exactly what you have when done. BTW: My 95 unfortunately had a leak in my boat cover last winter. The moisture caused a few issues but one that I have not fixed yet, have not tried to fix yet, is the starter. It now clicks sometimes when I hit the key. Moisture damage I am sure. It always starts but sometimes I need to hit the key once or twice before it turns over. When I get bored I will pull the starter and clean it up. Before buying new heads for your boat I would pressure check and Mag check your old heads. They may be fine or may be eligible for a simple crack repair. Lock n Stich has been a process used for many years that permanently fixes cracks in heads and blocks. Any quality automotive Machine shop can do that for you. There are shops in nearly every town. Try and get word of mouth advice as to who is the best Machine Shop close to you. Ask repair shops who they sub work out to. |
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JPASS
Grand Poobah Joined: June-17-2013 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 2283 |
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No way I'd pay $3K for heads on my boat. For that kinda money, I'd do some research and do it myself.
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'92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Steve,
Have your "Mustang" guy do the work. It's a Ford and he sure should be capable of bolting heads on.
Gary, I'd still be worried. Remember they now make them in China! |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I see you had me worried for a sec. Where mine are going if it freezes I have bigger problems--- Thanks
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SteveHookEm
Senior Member Joined: July-17-2015 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 157 |
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They've already installed the new starter and I have labor now for the compression test and I'm assuming labor to pull the heads. And, what mechanic? My main goal is to get the boat running so we can enjoy it and not worry about reliability. I have a "Mustang Guy" that works on the restoration of my son's Foxbody 1988 Coupe. But that car is hardly reliable and I don't think I want him touching my boat! haha He could certainly mount the heads but if something didn't run right then what? I am stuck to him and no boat knowledge. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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It was operator error, I froze them and they cracked at a seam on the water jacket. Eventually I took them off and welded them back together, as it didn't involve the tubes themselves it was a pretty easy repair- I should have done it sooner. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Please expand on that comment Joe,I just bought a set PM me if you don't want to fill up his thread |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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+1 on Tim's idea. Now that you know what is going on you know what questions to ask when looking for a new mechanic. Don't rule out looking for a performance shop who works on Mustangs too.
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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A have skied a couple seasons with aluminum tape over bigger cracks on my hitek headers. Jb weld on the heads might even keep you dry for a while.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21109 |
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Have them put it back together. Then either go skiing or find a new mechanic.
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SteveHookEm
Senior Member Joined: July-17-2015 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 157 |
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They will only do the work if I go with new heads from PCM or an EFI bobtail motor for $10K (plus install). They discounted the heads to $1500 each. Still deciding what to do.
They installed a new starter (see beginning of this long thread) and ran a compression test to make sure that the new heads would be viable on this block. Compression: #1-4: 135, #5: 145, #6-8: 135 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21109 |
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Gt40 heads were available in a very limited number of auto applications, and do in fact need a few things to make them proper for marine 351 use (drilling out bolt hole, brass core plugs, etc). If an unknowing shop were to order auto 351 heads to install, they would certainly not get what they needed. The gt40 has a closed loop efi system and cannot compensate for large changes in components- so they have good reason for their stance. That said, it's not technically 100% correct. They're erring on the safe side.
There have been enough gt40p head swaps performed onto PCM GT40's (in place of the original gt40 heads) by members here that can say with a high level of confidence that it is an acceptable swap. That is likely not the case for any old factory ford head. |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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The only thing is, Steve needs his current mechanic to at least put things back together, since he's the one that remembers (hopefully) how it came apart. Or else, he'll need to find someone that already knows the GT-40 inside and out. Nothing mechanics hate more than getting a box of parts as a starting point.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Sounds like both PCM and the mechanic don't know the difference with marine ans automotive. PCM needs reminding on where there engines come from! Sure backs up all the suggestions of finding another person to do the work. |
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SteveHookEm
Senior Member Joined: July-17-2015 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 157 |
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Another issue is that my mechanic works with PCM directly all the time. He told me that PCM said not to use auto heads on this engine that it causes issues. So he's spooked from the start. The PCM guy said that the auto heads will cause issues on the EFI marine engine. True or not, now he's saying "PCM doesn't recommend it" so it's in his head.
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