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Prop question/suggestion/problem

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TRBenj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2016 at 11:18am
Mercruiser made a 260hp efi 350 during the year range his boat was made (like Eddie said, it pre-dates Vortec), and there are no obvious signs (performance or otherwise) that would indicate he has anything other than what he says he has. I don't understand the skepticism.

Maybe it's a hammerhead 383 or a black scorpion or a supercharged LSA... But I doubt it. Probably just a 260hp 350 efi like he says it is.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2016 at 10:29am
And how do you know the boat has not been repowered?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2016 at 10:24am
Originally posted by Luchog Luchog wrote:

Originally posted by lcgordon lcgordon wrote:

350 mag

Only have a video of it


Where did you get that 260hp spec? I'd bet that engine is 280-315hp and already has Vortec heads...so this whole upgrade debate would end up just plain weird.

You could use you engine serial n° to find out what engine and specs you have in there.


Nope. The boat is a '92 and the Votec didn't come out til '96.
When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2016 at 9:56am
Originally posted by lcgordon lcgordon wrote:


So the motor I have is a 350 efi with 260hp I think. On the motor it says max rpm 4400-4800.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2016 at 9:48am
Originally posted by lcgordon lcgordon wrote:

350 mag

Only have a video of it


Where did you get that 260hp spec? I'd bet that engine is 280-315hp and already has Vortec heads...so this whole upgrade debate would end up just plain weird.

You could use you engine serial n° to find out what engine and specs you have in there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2016 at 8:30am
If the dart heads flow any differently (presumably better), I do not see how you can confidently state that his non-adjustable A/F curves are going to compensate just fine.

There are guys who have rebuilt their GT40's who claim that a .030 overbore was enough of a displacement change to cause the EFI system to hiccup.

Either way, I don't think landis is up for a head swap... He's convinced an outboard is the way to go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2016 at 3:56am
A couple questions above.
You could switch to Dart cast Iron heads with 64cc chambers and bump compression while also improving flow. Would not affect your limited EFI system at all but would bump power. The OEM heads have 76cc chambers in the 80's up to the Vortec design.

The Vortec heads are hands down the best bang for the buck. Up to about 5,000 RPM they perform as well as some of the very best available at 25% the cost. This RPM range is perfect for a boat engine. I only ruled them out due to his limited EFI System that does not allow changes in timing. and the fact that you would need an aftermarket intake manifold to work with a Vortec Head.
For this combo cost you can buy a set of cast iron Dart heads and equal the performance of the vortec up to 5,000 and outperform it above 5,000 RPM. The Dart would use the factory boat intake and run with the EFI this man has on this boat.
I think they call them Iron Eagle heads for around 800.
The 383 upgrade is a good one also but again, more money and far more involved installation. They do pull much harder for sure over a 350 but once again we bump into the limitation of his EFI system not being adjustable. If you increase displacement you will need more fuel to match this change and this EFI is locked so that can't happen without someone with serious know how.

Dart heads or similar heads will work with OEM timing and just changing compression does not change the fuel mix so your EFI would be fine with the change.
Those are the reasons for my advice but the boat is for sale and this is a dead discussion unless someone else wants to upgrade a high altitude boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2016 at 3:06am
Another easy way to more hp and speed that is plug and play...sell your entire engine complete and then drop in either a carbed or efi 383 mag stroker from mercruiser complete...plug it in turn the key and go fast
This is the life
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcgordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2016 at 1:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-19-2016 at 8:23pm
what exact engine do you have? can you post a pic?
Is it MPI or EFI (TBI)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcgordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-19-2016 at 11:47am
This sounds too hard. Ill end up blowing something up or its just gonna run like crap. Ill leave it. Thanks for the info tho. Always great to learn.

On a side note the new prop should be in tomorrow. Hopefully ill get to throw it on and run it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-19-2016 at 11:28am
Only if on your engine the All-in timing cannot be adjusted back without also messing the timing up at idle.

If the advance is all ECU, then its a problem.

If the advance system is mechanical in the distributer, then with some internal adjustments, the guidelines for Vortec heads can be adhered to, and you get the power from improved VE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcgordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 6:29pm
Thought those did not work?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 6:27pm
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

If you only change compression you don't change the fuel mix at all.
Timing would remain the same at that altitude.
In the altitude he is running small chamber heads would just help offset the loss of compression due to altitude. If the system could not be adjusted you would need to avoid the Vortec design as they run less timing than stock heads.

Should restore some power without a negative effect unless he takes this boat back down to sea level where it would have detonation issues on pump gas.

I think he would be fine but it sounds like a moot point now since it is for sale.


Vortec heads would be the only reasonable change he should consider - nothing is more sure or cost effective.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcgordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 5:43pm
How would you change comp without switching heads? Mill the ones I got? Smaller head gasket? Or change heads but not vortec ones?

Oh and its not for sale yet. Well actually it is because eveything is always forsale. But im hoping of getting rid of it in a year or two.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 5:23pm
If you only change compression you don't change the fuel mix at all.
Timing would remain the same at that altitude.
In the altitude he is running small chamber heads would just help offset the loss of compression due to altitude. If the system could not be adjusted you would need to avoid the Vortec design as they run less timing than stock heads.

Should restore some power without a negative effect unless he takes this boat back down to sea level where it would have detonation issues on pump gas.

I think he would be fine but it sounds like a moot point now since it is for sale.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcgordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 3:10pm
I want adam to get an outboard so I dont have too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhersey29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 3:07pm
John Waring knows of a boat in Vail that hasn't been used in a long time. Reach out to him. I think it's a prostar outboard of some sort. He may reach out to Adam on Facebook.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcgordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 2:34pm
Im not going to anyways. And im pretty sure its a 350. I just was wondering. Need to sell this boat have some moeny saved up and get a small loan and buy one I will keep for a while. Then start making that one faster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

If you change camshafts the ECU can freak out and cause issues.
Changing the Heads won't affect the ECU.
It should detect the exhaust fuel mix and adjust properly.
Should be a headache free upgrade.

My 1986 Malibu had the 350 Chevy with a 4bbl Carb on it done by Mercury Marine. Ran really good at sea level and was rated 260 HP. Ran 48 MPH with a stock 13 x13 prop. Never damaged that prop in 23 years of use.
Most of the fuel injected engines had higher horsepower ratings than the carb versions.

Are you sure your engine is not a 305 instead of the 350?

Only the latest marine engines have O2 sensors and run open loop. Most marine efi engines >10 yrs old are unable to adjust for changing induction components. This is why upgrading an efi engine is usually not an option- at least a simple/cheap one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 2:07pm
If you change camshafts the ECU can freak out and cause issues.
Changing the Heads won't affect the ECU.
It should detect the exhaust fuel mix and adjust properly.
Should be a headache free upgrade.

My 1986 Malibu had the 350 Chevy with a 4bbl Carb on it done by Mercury Marine. Ran really good at sea level and was rated 260 HP. Ran 48 MPH with a stock 13 x13 prop. Never damaged that prop in 23 years of use.
Most of the fuel injected engines had higher horsepower ratings than the carb versions.

Are you sure your engine is not a 305 instead of the 350?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcgordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 12:51pm
I got ya that makes sense. I dont think its worth messing with especially if adam gets an outboard here soon.

My 450 you cant keep the front wheel down. Its not so heavy tho.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 12:48pm
Re Mapping the ECU is re programming the thing.   You can adjust timing and air fuel mixture. If you modify you will have to do this either way.   

In your car the system is set up for EPA, runs very lean.   You can adjust timing and fuel, run richer and more power by re program.   

On my Harley i had a stage 2 done and also increased CID and with the tune I can pull a heritage softail off the ground, for non bikers this is a heavy pig.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcgordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 12:42pm
I got ya. I dont wanna do that. I like my boat to cost me almost nothing and just run. My boat gets no love haha. My friends call it the Budgetfooter 190.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 12:37pm
It might work well enough if you modify it without reprogramming the computer, or it might end up a bit too lean and burn things up... without having the ability to modify the programming its a bit too much of a risk for most to take.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcgordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 12:12pm
Just wondering why is the fuel injection bad. What makes it harder to modify?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 11:58am
It wouldn't take more than 1500 to put into the motor... if yours wasn't fuel injected it would take about the same to put some vortec heads on it and you would be sitting pretty on one foot
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcgordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 11:48am
This would end all my problems

Well not really but after I drop like 5k into the motor it would.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lcgordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 11:45am
I dont really even know what that means
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2016 at 11:26am
what about re-map the ECU.   
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