Prop key way is sheered |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3604 |
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I guess I did not suggest that method because the trailer method has always worked to attain a vibration free boat. Not saying it could not be better but it has been good enough.
Where did the factory set up the alignment? |
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DayTony
Gold Member Joined: June-30-2013 Location: Salem MA Status: Offline Points: 831 |
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good to hear its all back up and running Adam,
That was a good undertaking. But i bet you completely understand now why marine mechanics charge $100+ an hr. They earn every penny and rarely catch a break. I'm going to be that guy right now though, Why do you guys not check them or suggest checking them in the water? I've always been told to do final adjustment when its in the water because fiberglass moves. and when its being supported on blocks or a trailer it may be in a different home location than when its being supported by water. That said; under load, accelerating, decelerating, high seas conditions or overloaded with fat sacs that alignment is sure to be flexing around a bit so how picky can you get? |
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1988 Barefoot nautique-454
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I'm sure Roger over on the other side of that big pond calls them that!! |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Rib not slip
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4112 |
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You mean like a stillson wrench
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Or if you are really "dated" like myself, water pump pliers!! BTW, the only other person I know that calls them that is Billy. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4112 |
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Slip joint or as we call them channel locks work fine as long as they're large enough to sit on the flats of the nuts not the corners.
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 272 |
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ok. I might just use a small C clamp which should be as delicate
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 272 |
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What's a spud wrench? Sunds delicious
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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In most cases, all that's needed is hand tight. If more is needed, tighten slightly with a wrench. You do not want the gland to run hot. Warm is OK. You will need two wrenches to set the jam nut against the packing nut. I suggest two spud wrenches and not pipe wrenches or slip joint pliers. I've seen too many hack jobs where the nuts look like they've been chewed on by brass beavers!! |
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 272 |
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I guess can't may have been too strong a term. I was excited to be done at that point. I was holding them together and if I let go and tried to make a space it moved. i recall now that you guys said to put a bolt in to hold it in place. I think I was also thinking that .001 of movement was likely considering the distance from coupling to strut just by it's own natural weight or the packing box etc.
I'll run it for a few days and then check/adjust again. How tight should I do the packing nut? Thanks, Adam |
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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I put in .004 or so at the tightest point (to act as a spacer) & very-lightly tighten the closest screw. Then, like Pete said above, you can use next thicker feeler gage to check within .001.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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[QUOTE=BaccoBouncer] There is far less than .002" gap on the couplings. Can't measure less. /QUOTE]
Adam, What are you using to measure? I'm curious why you can't measure less than the .002'.Are you trying to use a real thin feeler gauge which can be difficult due to how thin and flexible they are? If so, try using two that are thicker say ,011" and .012". The difference is .001". Below the .001" is by "feel" unless you have a set that has some .0005" increments in it. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3604 |
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Make sure all the adjustments are bolted back up tight and take it for a spin.
After a few hours use I would check the shaft by hand and see if it still spins freely for you. Congratulations on your repair. I pulled mine out for the first time today, charged the battery and decided it was time to change all the wheel seals and clean and pack the bearings with new grease. Trying to get ready. Mark |
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 272 |
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That would make sense.
But.... Having that extra little bit of adjustment I got everything spot on. There is far less than .002" gap on the couplings. Can't measure less. The shaft turns so freely that with the missing blade prop on it will turn the shaft just from the offset balance. So I have it nicely tuned for what is there. I'll keep everyone posted as she get's stitched back up and heads for the water. Thanks |
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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baitkiller
Platinum Member Joined: October-11-2011 Location: SW Florida Status: Offline Points: 1693 |
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Just so you know, these struts are really soft and bend easy. My region is shallow and I see the bottom often. Typically the bend is a twist. Just a tiny bit can move the coupling end 1/2". I have straightened them in situ many times with a 15" crescent wrench and cheater pipe. They have to be really bad to go to the press. Then again I run a split coupling due the repeated groundings so its easy to slide the shaft out and check for centered hull penetration. Its harder to adjust and check with the shaft in but it can be done. Just because the engine has been in the boat half sideways for years don't make it right.
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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DrCC
Grand Poobah Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
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Yes, I've mentioned this before. I refer to it as an "Out of Parallel Alignment"
When you have perfect align at the coupling. Centered in the front of the log, but yet requires the front mounts to be all the way to one side. This means your strut is still out of whack. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4112 |
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I agree with Pete.
You need to check the strut alignment there's no way the motor should have to be pushed that far off center. I had to do a strut adjustment on my '95 because the motor needed to be shifted to far to one side to be properly aligned at the coupler. Can you get a pic from behind the strut without the prop maybe we can see the root of the problem. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Adam,
It was suggested but I don't recall if you ever checked if your strut was bent or off center causing the aft end of the shaft to be off center? If so , you could still get the shaft centered in the log but due to the angle of the shaft, it causes the engine to sit on an angle and off center as well. This could be the problem with you needing the extra adjustment on the forward engine mount? Get a measurement from each side at the chine to the shaft. |
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 272 |
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I pulled it cut it and put it back together.....in the dark. when it's light I'll see how the alignment goes. Thanks for the direction.
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 272 |
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When I pull the coupling up, the point of contact is at 3:00. My clock is me at the rudder looking at the tranny coupling. i.e. point of contact is dead starboard. The aft mounts are pretty centered left to right. If I adjust them to get the two couplings parallel then the two coupling axis are pretty far off.
So I first adjusted the aft mounts to get the coupling axis centered. Then to take that 3:00 point of contact and 9:00 gap closed I would then move the fore of the motor a bit port. That is when the mount bottoms out on the block and the alt hits the floor trim. Like I mentioned it has been in that extreme spot for a long time because the trim has the cut grooves from the alternator housing. i agree removing the mount and trimming the yoke shaft (or what ever it's called) is likely the bet option. If I can just a get a smidge more out of that I should be able to close that gap in the coupling. Any advice on removing a motor mount? I wa also wondering why the fore and aft motor mounts are different styles? |
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3604 |
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How about a do over. With all 4 bolts for your prop shaft removed. Take your feeler gauge and try and see how much room you have between the tranny coupler and the prop shaft.
It should be all within about .0015 when done. 1.5 thousands of an inch. That is checking all around the 360 degree circle. You may have zero at 6 oclock and .0015 at 9 oclock and zero at 12 oclock. That would be fine. Once we know what you have for clearance and where it is on the clock we may be able to help. Right now we are in the dark. Check and see where you have zero clearance with the prop shaft pulled up to the tranny coupler by hand. Can you spin it freely with it pulled on to the tranny coupler? The only drag should be in the cutlass bearing but you can lubricate that for this test. You need to know how much clearance you have and report it so we can start to assist. Hang in there you are close. Mark |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I looked back thru the thread but could not see what engine you have. Is it a Chevy? Could you use a shorter belt and bring the alternator closer to the block? I think I'd go with option 1. I can't imagine the factory placing the log off but yet can't explain why it won't align
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Option 1 all day ....
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 272 |
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OK now I'm feeling frustrated.
So got all the motor mount adjusts loose. yeah! home stretch right? Nope. I almost have it dialed in so that the couplings are parallel. I just need to move the front (fore) end of the motor a bit more port. But when I leverage it over there it just seems to move back when I release the pressure. I finally figured out that the fore port motor mount is all the way in. The tierod ( don't know name) shaft that goes into the motor mount is up against the engine block. You can see it in the picture. I also noticed that the alternator rubs on the floor trim on that side and has been for a long time. It has worn two grooves into it from vibration. So here's the big picture. I have the strut in dead center of the log and perfect top to bottom. The reason why I decided to adjust the strut is because it was very far over to starboard, almost touching the log. I would also say that the log doesn't look perfectly straight in the hull. This is a 250 hr boat with one owner who showed me all maintenance records and he didn't know much about boats so he never worked on it. He thought it had a carb until I pointed out the EFI and explained how it worked. So I think I'm looking at some factory stuff here. So if this is all original then the following may have happened. The guy who put the log in didn't align it very well. So this made everything have to shift over , motor mount strut to accommodate as much as possible. The issue is that the motor mounts only have so far they can go and the floor opening only has so much room. The put the fore of the motor over to side as far as it will go (rod on block), alternator housing rubbing. So now that I centered the strut to the log the motor can't make it that extra bit to line up. wher eit is now If I center the two couplings I am around .008" off axis for parallel. So my options are..... 1) Remove the Fore Port motor mount and take out the tie rod and cut a little bit off the end so I can adjust a bit farther and not hit the block. I would also have to grind a bit of the rail that trims the floor so the alternator isn't hitting them. I am able to get a bottle jack under the block so I can remove the mount. Or.. 2) Remove the strut and put it back where the shaft is almost rubbing the log. Basically the factory setting. I imagine like this the stuffing box is surely pulling on the shaft to one side which can't be good. Or.... 3) Remove the strut and the log. Center the motor on it's mounts. Then put the log and the strut back on aligned with the motor at nominal Thoughts? |
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 272 |
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okie dokie
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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DrCC
Grand Poobah Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
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Side to side tools include: Your old prop shaft and a hammer.
I like the 2.5 lb hammer. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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4200 should be between the complete strut base and the hull.
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 272 |
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I can't believe I've already picked up two stars with just this thread. Talk about baptism by fire. So now that I'm at motor position adjustment. Up and down has those handy threaded blocks. left and right...not so much. Any tricks or tools that will help with breaking the frozen side to side? I have a 2 foot pry bar and a six foot. Their isn't an obvious super safe place to pry just some "hey it's my best shot" angles. Anybody found any other tools that work nicely? ball joint separator? hydraulic hand tool?
Thanks, |
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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