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1972 SN Promo Project

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2016 at 7:58pm
Chris this may help. From this diagram the top end is oiled through rocker shaft on this engine. It states that the second bracket is where the oil supply gallery to the rocker shaft is located.
Maybe worth giving the engine a flush before adding new 30W oil.
I would also give it a try with cranking the engine over but obviously not starting so the whole rotating assemblies are moving. Make sure you have a nice healthy cranking battery.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2016 at 8:34pm
Not an expert on this motor by any means but in the manual for my hemi it states that when pre-oiling the engine it may be required to rotate the crankshaft manually until the oil passages on the crank line up with the holes in the crank bearings to get oil up to the rocker shafts. When the engine is running this is a non issue but if the crank is stationary the oil passage may simply be not lined up. Run your pre lube drill and slowly turn the crank until you see oil up top.   Replacement bearings have an oil v groove but OEM do not so maybe you're dealing with the same issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2016 at 8:52pm
That completely makes sense though - Might get to try that on Wednesday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2016 at 11:03pm
Thanks for the info guys!!!

As normal, Alan ended up being correct. As soon as I rotated the engine about 1/4 turn, oil started flowing like a chocolate fountain.



With the system primed, the compression test commenced.



So...........the results of the compression test are as follows.

1. 125
2. 125
3. 115
4. 155
5. 150
6. 120
7. 155
8. 155

I have no clue what to make of these numbers. They either seem high, low, or inconsistent.

Regardless, I think the next step is to pull the engine and get ready for grinding. Ill get it on an engine stand and we can figure out where to go from there.

Ideas?????!!!!!!????

I decided to give the stuck pylon another attempt.




Bonus footage what happens when Steve shows up.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2016 at 11:12pm
Love the out takes! Man that camera guy is good!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2016 at 11:13pm
Nice project, been following it. I have been told that more than 10% variation indicates a need for work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2016 at 11:39pm
Can't find the hole, we've all been there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2016 at 11:42pm
Also, I'll put in a disclaimer.

Doing the compression test twice on the same cylinder sometimes yielded different results. 155 psi seems way higher than any other engine cylinder I've ever tested. I don't know why it would be that high, but at the same time, #3 first indicated 50, then 0, then 115.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolleronariver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2016 at 11:48pm
So, every night before I go to bed I always watch some clips of nautiques on the lake just to remind me why I'm working my butt off to replace my stringers and floor. What's funny is when I open youtube it is now showing your clips of your rebuild as suggested videos to watch. Keep em' coming, I'm enjoying seeing what all your doing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 12:03am
Keep going until it gets consistent. Bad seal on the gauge?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 2:20am
Originally posted by rolleronariver rolleronariver wrote:

So, every night before I go to bed I always watch some clips of nautiques on the lake just to remind me why I'm working my butt off to replace my stringers and floor. What's funny is when I open youtube it is now showing your clips of your rebuild as suggested videos to watch. Keep em' coming, I'm enjoying seeing what all your doing.


Haha. Thanks man!!! I hope I can keep the "content" up during the grinding stage.

HW, that's what I thought initially but statistical analysis suggests that the engine is the variable. No difference in the tests at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 3:19am
Not sure 3 data points is statistically significant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 3:52am
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Not sure 3 data points is statistically significant.


There were way more than 3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 9:38am
You should not see variation in compression results from test to test unless something very strange was happening. Large variation more likely points to an instrument problem or test method error. Explain to us how you're performing the test.

Edit: watched the vid, method looks generally correct. Make sure you're cranking it long enough for the reading to stabilize.

Presumably all rockers (valves) are moving up and down when you turn it over by hand? No looseness in the valve train?

Are you doing the test dry or a little oil down the cylinders? 155 seems awfully high for a low compression (8:1) motor, 110-120 seems like it would be closer to reality. I'd want to make sure something wasn't giving you an artificially high reading in those cylinders. Otherwise, there aren't any scary (low) numbers... I'd lube it up and mothball it.

Put a towel or rag over that breaker bar before you mess up the chrome on the ring/finger! You may need more soak time, heat, and a longer bar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 10:31am
Isn't a compression test on a cold engine pretty much useless, other than to tell you that you do at least have compression? The numbers are meaningless as they are likely to change once the engine is warm. And if you've put oil in the cylinders, won't that skew the test as well with high numbers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 11:05am
I can't come up with a good reason not to start that engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 11:28am
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

Isn't a compression test on a cold engine pretty much useless, other than to tell you that you do at least have compression?

I think you answered your own question

Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

The numbers are meaningless as they are likely to change once the engine is warm. And if you've put oil in the cylinders, won't that skew the test as well with high numbers?

They indeed more qualitative than quantitative but still not completely meaningless, to me anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 11:35am
Exactly we really just wanted to see if the engine would make ANY compression. So the test met our goal. I think Chris posted the numbers more out of curiousity then anything else.

BTW, the starter is pretty much fried, and the carb is no where near functional, so if someone has a carb and starter we could borrow, I would love to fire this thing up.

More likely it will come out of the boat go on a stand and sit patiently in the corner while we attack the stringers - at this point that is MY biggest concern, I honestly don't think there is anything even under the fiberglass (in most cases) - how are we going to recreate those???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 11:38am
Originally posted by skutsch skutsch wrote:

BTW, the starter is pretty much fried,

Steve,
What's the starter doing or not doing?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 11:57am
Originally posted by skutsch skutsch wrote:

while we attack the stringers - at this point that is MY biggest concern, I honestly don't think there is anything even under the fiberglass (in most cases) - how are we going to recreate those???

I don't understand the concern... Unless you're referring to the less than fun grinding and glassing that constitutes a stringer job?

Unless you're itching (ha) to get started on the stringers, I'd give a carb rebuild a shot and try to fire that thing. It's a little easier to do while in the boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolleronariver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by skutsch skutsch wrote:


BTW, the starter is pretty much fried, and the carb is no where near functional, so if someone has a carb and starter we could borrow, I would love to fire this thing up.



What are you calling fried? Have you taken it apart to see if it can be cleaned and have the brushes replaced? I would think you could get it working good enough to fire that motor. I wish I lived closer and I would do it for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 12:01pm
No need to precisely duplicate the original stringer design. There are also opportunities for improvement. Put the engine and floor where they need to be that's about it. The rest kinda whatever you want.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolleronariver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by skutsch skutsch wrote:

while we attack the stringers - at this point that is MY biggest concern, I honestly don't think there is anything even under the fiberglass (in most cases) - how are we going to recreate those???

I don't understand the concern... Unless you're referring to the less than fun grinding and glassing that constitutes a stringer job?

Unless you're itching (ha) to get started on the stringers, I'd give a carb rebuild a shot and try to fire that thing. It's a little easier to do while in the boat.


My thoughts exactly. Partially because I'm in the middle of a stringer job on my sport. I agree, I would see what can be done with the motor before you start on the stringers. Besides not being able to use your boards as a template, it might be easier grinding those things down with it being so rotted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 12:11pm
Great thread- love the vids.
I agree with others- see what you can do to get the engine running in the boat before you pull it. Take your time and baseline it properly before you pull it out- that way you know exactly what is/ is not needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 12:15pm
What does it matter the engine is in the boat? It would be a hell of a lot easier working on it sitting on a cradle on the floor. I think the point is don't start taking it apart just yet. You can run an engine on a cradle...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by skutsch skutsch wrote:

BTW, the starter is pretty much fried,

Steve,
What's the starter doing or not doing?


Acting finicky, nothing a good day at an Alternator and Starter shop wouldn't fix, but it is an Auto starter and not sure if Chris is going to look for a marine starter or rebuild this one...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

No need to precisely duplicate the original stringer design. There are also opportunities for improvement. Put the engine and floor where they need to be that's about it. The rest kinda whatever you want.


That is good to know - now we just have to convince Chris it doesn't have to be exactly as original. BTW if he is going to put a platform on it, what does it matter... I'm just saying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by skutsch skutsch wrote:

while we attack the stringers - at this point that is MY biggest concern, I honestly don't think there is anything even under the fiberglass (in most cases) - how are we going to recreate those???

I don't understand the concern... Unless you're referring to the less than fun grinding and glassing that constitutes a stringer job?

Unless you're itching (ha) to get started on the stringers, I'd give a carb rebuild a shot and try to fire that thing. It's a little easier to do while in the boat.


Main concern was how to pattern the new stringers, but if it isn't all that important (other then floor height and engine placement) to be exactly the same, I have less concern. Not that I am looking foward to grinding and scratching... HA!

Ok Chris, get working on breaking that carb loose (none of the moving parts actually move...). BTW, the motor is as far apart as it probably will get for the forseeable future. It will go on an engine stand and probably just as easy to start and run it on the engine stand, where it is out in the open and at "working height" as running it in the boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 12:47pm
Thanks for all the comments everyone!!!!

I see 2 sides of the coin here. On one hand I agree that now is the time to see how far we can go with the engine since everything is in place. I'll rip into the carb today and see what kind of shape it's in after a hot bath. A few more considerations,

1. I don't know if the fuel pump works.
2. I don't know what the inside of the gas tank looks like.
3. The wiring harnes is a total mess and I'm not sure if the coil will get power.
4. The surface of the heads where the exhaust manifolds mate are very pitted and rusty. At the very least they will need to be resurfaced at a shop.

The hour meter in the boat last read 1495 so there very well could be life left in the engine. In the long run, I don't want to invest all the time and money into the stringers, gel, trailer, wiring, bottom paint, and gauges just to put a big rusty engine in the middle. One of the big questions I was going to propose was:

If the engine gets rebuilt, what upgrades could be included (hidden) to give it more power but also keep it original to the eye? Since there is no set deadline for the project completion, I'd like to consider as many options as possible NOW while everything is apart.

The positive is that we're having an awesome November so far and the weather is actually pleasant for work outside. One of these days I have to go back to work like a real person. In fact, I have a few more days left before holiday travel season begins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uk1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 12:55pm


Unless you're itching (ha) to get started on the stringers, I'd give a carb rebuild a shot and try to fire that thing. It's a little easier to do while in the boat.[/QUOTE]

Main concern was how to pattern the new stringers, but if it isn't all that important (other then floor height and engine placement) to be exactly the same, I have less concern. Not that I am looking foward to grinding and scratching... HA!

Ok Chris, get working on breaking that carb loose (none of the moving parts actually move...). BTW, the motor is as far apart as it probably will get for the forseeable future. It will go on an engine stand and probably just as easy to start and run it on the engine stand, where it is out in the open and at "working height" as running it in the boat.[/QUOTE]

Bottom of the page 77/78 Stringer drawings pre cradle there are some minor differences on the top of the stringers from the engine forward on early 70's SN... sent a copy to Quinner some time ago, can send again if needs be.
Good luck with the rebuild.

Roger.
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