Vinegar Flush Help |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Posted: April-05-2017 at 11:40am |
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I've posted this on a couple of other forums however word on the street is that THIS is where the REAL mechanics roam. π True story.
My issue? Well last summer I had an overheating problem that plagued me all season. Last season's threads: http://www.mbboatown...lp-overheating/ http://www.mbboatown...emp/#entry60382 2004 330hp Excalibur 5.7L I've narrowed the cause down to the exhaust manifold/risers. I'd like to try doing a full vinegar flush to see if that solves my issues before taking the whole exhaust manifold apart and dealing with that potential chaos. (I'm NOT a mechanic... also not an idiot... but not a mechanic) Side note: my mechanic cannot figure out the issue either... he's top shelf. Unfortunately he charges top shelf prices as well. $$$ He and I checked/replaced everything up to the exhaust last season so I know there are no issues with wrong/faulty parts up to the exhaust. My question... cuz I'm crazy paranoid... is how exactly, step by itty bitty step, do I do it? I'll be doing it myself with no help so the more info you guys can lend the better my odds of success. I'd also like to post a detailed thread complete with video/photos after (unless it already exists) for others like myself so they don't need to go through what I'm currently going through at the moment. so... -what holes do I open... -what holes do I close... -what holes do i pour into... -particular type of vinegar... -how much vinegar, how much water... -fake a lake or no fake a lake... -what parts do I remove... -what parts do I replace... -how long do i do it... -how will i know if it works... -warning signs, things to watch out for... -run engine, don't run engine... -warn the neighbors of potential stink cloud... -etc. These are the questions that keep me up at night. Please help with advice, wisdom, links, photos, videos, wise cracks/comments etc... I'll take anything cuz my family's happiness this summer depends on it! My boy, only 9yrs old is counting on his father to come through. My teenage daughter is counting on her father to be the "coolest" dad ever. My wife, well, I fear that no boat for the summer may be a deal breaker for her. No pressure, but a warning that I'll be blame shifting onto everyone else but me if I can't get this solved for my wife and kids. Just sayin'. Thanks in advance. Dave |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21113 |
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The links you posted documenting your issues do not work.
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Hey Dave, welcome!!
Before you Massengil that poor engine let's look at a few things: I read the other threads and we should probably just start over here. Did you replace the original strainer (hopefully not with the one that was posted)? Checklist of things to do: Check impeller condition, if OK leave it in. Clean strainer screen and be sure you still have the rubber gasket at cup Tighten every hose clamp, use a 5/16 nut driver not a screw driver Remove the large brass plugs from the exhaust manifolds and clean out any debris you can Then report back Corrected Links: http://www.mbboatowners.com/index.php/topic/4688-help-overheating/ http://www.mbboatowners.com/index.php/topic/4813-2004-pcm-57l-excalibur-330-mfi-running-temp/#entry60382 |
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desertskier
Platinum Member Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1114 |
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desertskier
Platinum Member Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1114 |
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I'm not familiar with that engine but is it possible that he routed the serpentine belt incorrectly? Also, what caused it to get so chewed up in the first place?
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Same motor as in my 206, belt routing looks correct, if any doubt there is a little diagram right there on the motor.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21113 |
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I read both threads quickly, it sounded like a comedy of errors with several different failure modes happening at different times- giving the appearance that they were related by a common cause... but I suspect you have/had MULTIPLE issues that you were trying to troubleshoot concurrently, leading you down wrong paths. Here are a few things to remember:
-160 stat will have you running a fairly steady 170-180 if all is well. - an overhead at idle (normal temps at speed) is likely due to an air leak between the rwp and through hull. Hose condition, hose connections, strainer bowl are all things to look at here. - an overheat at speed (normal temps at idle) is going to be due to lack of flow. Impeller condition, rwp installed/spinning backwards, bad rwp seals, or a blockage in the system will cause this failure mode. With all the attention given to the cooling system I *think* you moved from one failure mode to the other, i.e., you solved one problem and caused another. Describe for us the exact nature of your overheating situation NOW, ignoring what you saw in the past. Consider me very skeptical that the exhaust manifolds are to blame. |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Now this is some help! Win! Thank you.
I'm off to work presently but will answer all of these replies later today . |
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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How you douching on this
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7948 |
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I've never heard of using vinegar on a boat, but will it cure a stinky bilge better than Simple Green?
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Well the idea of cleaning out the manifolds has some merit, maybe only to me because i did just that.
I used 'The works' toilet cleaner. I closed off all ports & sloshed it around, let it work for an hour. The manifold was off the engine, of course (I had them off for valve seal work).. A lot of crud came out when I dumped it. I don't think doing this with vinegar, while manifold is still on the engine will accomplish much. If you think the manifolds are clogged, maybe just hook a garden hose up to the raw water port & see if they flow OK. Edit - Just occurred to me this problem sounds similar to a friend's. He has a 'toon with mercruiser GM V6 not very old. It was overheating. I got involved because his mechanic gave up on it (PIA to work on) I took 1 riser off & clean as a whistle inside. I then hooked up garden hose to hose that connects to manifold & back flushed. Now instead of pegging, it goes a little hot then stettles down. I think sand was /still is in the thermostat housing passages. |
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βBeer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.β
Ben Franklin |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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When inboards and inboard mechanics could be easily found here in south Florida they would give the manifolds and risers a bath in muriatic acid when they would have trouble,In the salt the best they ever lasted was around 7 years anyway. Maybe running some water in them from the front water hose inlet thru to the back with the plug removed would help,but catch the water that comes out and see it there is any sediment coming out. Vinegar IMOH would be a waste of time.
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Gary, or anyone else here.... has anyone made stainless steel manifolds for saltwater applications? Alternatively has anyone tried metallic barrier coatings for manifolds (the oil patch uses high phosphorus electroless nickel plating for brine applications to prevent corrosion from seawater.)?
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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What about just the risers?
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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There are several Pete,Commander made them, Stainless Marine is another and of course Hi Tek. I am in the process of testing out a pair on my Shamrock For what they cost I could have bought 3 sets of PCM ones but that would only give me about 15 years of service. So far after 2 years the Hi Teks don't even have a mark on them. A great advantage with them is that they fit exactly the same as the PCM ones. If I had found a set of Commanders my battery tray would have needed to be removed and something to do with them figured out. I would love to have them for the Nautique just for the looks but due to fitment it makes plugs hard to get at.
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Gary--any issues with hose/manifold crevice corrosion?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I can say no since it occurs between metal surfaces and the hose is rubber! The common place for it is at the prop shaft to the trans coupling when the alignment is off. The interference between the two is under load and constantly flexing. |
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Rubber hose and stainless are known to be bad together in terms of corrosion. From an bold "yacht survey" blog
"Neither of us like it when the experts make big mistakes. Like attaching a carbon rubber hose to a stainless riser. Carbon rubber and stainless are like cats and dogs; they do not get along, and the rubber always wins. That rubber will eat the stainless right up, and it will leak like crazy." |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Pete, You need to remove the word "fretting"! BTW, rubber on 400 series isn't the greatest but on 300, it's fine. Your yacht survey people must be using inferior "muffler" stainless!! |
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Nobody would use 400 Series in seawater. Yeah it's not fretting it's intergeanular or something along those linea but I'd have to go back and relearn something useless to figure that out.
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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It's crevice corrosion I was recalling. It's described here;
Maybe better defined here; https://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/25077/SGNO78.pdf?sequence=1 |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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You need crack cream
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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No that stuff is for old people π
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Rubber corrodes too - there is a even a spec on it. Gates invented a corrosion resistant hose.back in the 90s. Now hoses pretty much last the life of a car.
From Gates web page: Molded Coolant Hose Factory molded to fit specific applications. Similar to OEM specifications. Approved for marine applications. β’ Engineered to resist electrochemical degradation β the leading cause of hose failure |
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βBeer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.β
Ben Franklin |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Careful with the old people reference. |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Gary, Now that is a CLASS ACT!! Very nice. Duane |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Another question: replacement exhaust hose... best prices/place/brand to get them?
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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I would highly recommend figuring out what your issue(s) are before you start throwing parts at it. Have you checked some of the items mentioned above yet?
SkiDim and NautiqueParts are 2 sources, at NP use the discount code PND for 10% off |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4232 |
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David, weren't you going to post details of the overheating problem later on? As people have mentioned, it's likely a cooling system issue that can be diagnosed once you explain more about when it overheats. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10667 |
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Having read your threads on MB boat owners and Planet Nautique and here on this issue, one thing that jumps right out at me is that somebody named YOU caused the problem unless there's something you haven't mentioned. I think you know that though.
You did routine maintenance replacing a 4 inch long hose between the strainer and trans cooler, replaced the well worn serpentine belt and replaced the impeller.......and then the overheating started Here's a cut and paste from your post on this issue on 7/31/16 on MB Boat Owners Hey guys. Please help. I did some routine maintenance yesterday... Replaced the 4" length hose between my raw water filter and tranny cooler... new impeller and new belt. Tested with a fake a lake setup to ensure all was well. Ran it a good 10-15 min with no issues. Took it out on the lake today and BAM... overheated as soon as I opened her up... actually only half throttle. Smoke but couldn't tell where it was coming from exactly. Horrible rubber smell. No visible damage and once it cooled it cranked right up and sounded good. I shut it down quickly after starting. Checked the intake, hose and filter and all is clear of debris. Doesn't appear water is getting in. I'd be looking at the water pump again, take it off the engine and get a real good look at it. Being a V Drive changing the impeller isn't the easiest job to do in the location it's in |
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