Vinegar Flush Help |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Not throwing parts... one of the hoses burst last season due to the overheating. Need to replace it and since it's looking more and more like I'll have to pull the risers that would be the time to do it.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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David,
Ken's copy and paste brings up some interesting facts. First, is a fake a lake or a direct hose connection is not a way to test the cooling system. The pressure from the hose overcomes problems such as a non working RWP. Yes, take a look at the RWP again. Did you use an OEM impeller? The Sierra made impellers have been known to not work! Overheats to the point of smelling burnt rubber can also be an indication of delaminated exhaust hose. The inner layer of rubber folds in on itself. Check it. |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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I completely own it. I hope nothing I said came across as an attempted blame shift somehow. I'm pretty sure my cheapskate alter-ego saying "it's easy routine stuff, don't pay a mechanic to do it" is what got me into this trouble to begin with. You make a valid point... and it's got me thinking. I know I installed the impeller the correct way initially and that there was good water flow out of the pipes in my driveway. I was following the advice from a good half dozen forums on replacing the impeller and was overly cautious. However, it's completely reasonable that if I didn't tighten something enough or missed something else, that I damaged the water pump. The impeller was definitely chewed up after that overheat. My question is... if I damaged the water pump back in the beginning why would it perform just fine (even now) during fake-a-lake driveway idling but fail out on the water? Isn't a failing pump a failing pump regardless? I get great flow out of the pipes as confirmed by my mechanic when he came to check it all out last season. |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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I'm not sure what else I can add other than from my posts from last season that I linked to and what I've said here on this post. Was I too vague? |
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Ken's post got me thinking also, on the impeller pump there is clearly a mark that says TOP, check to make sure it is in fact, on TOP.
You probably need to clarify what fake a lake means to you, is it a fake-a-lake plunger device below the boat, that strainer you posted a pic of in the other thread or putting your intake house in a bucket full of water, seem to recall you mentioning bucket in the other thread?? |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Love new tidbits of information! I haven't heard the delaminated exhaust hose theory yet. Interesting. That might explain why one side blew a hole. However that may have been caused by the original overheat and not the original cause. Impeller(s) have all been OEM part # replacements from skidim. I will elaborate on my fake-a-lake: I initially read enough negative posts back when I bought the boat to know that the correct way to run the engine on land and test flow is by using a tub rather than direct hose thereby forcing the pump to suck the water rather than forcing it into the intake via pressure. I had a 30 gallon plastic water tank on hand so I made my own. Big time overkill to the point of embarrassment. The engine doesn't even come close to running that tank dry but it made me feel better knowing that it wasn't the weakest link in the chain. When I initially set it up and every time since I've gotten good flow each and every time so I know for sure that the RWP is doing something. |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Impeller installed correctly... positive + mechanic confirmed it afterwards. BIG ASS BUCKET! Big time overkill. My fake-a-lake is pretty much the only thing that I'm 100% confident and solid on regarding this boat. |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Side note guys... Gotta say I really appreciate all of this help! Waiting on the weather to improve here so I can get started.
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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I didn't say impeller, I said pump, when replacing the face of the pump it can be installed at the wrong rotation/orientation, that is why the word TOP is stamped on it. Trust me, I have serviced that pump dozens of times on my boat and have almost reinstalled incorrectly more than once. |
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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I've learned all about combinations and permutations from my raw water pump. It's already a yoga exercise for me to change the impeller. I only do it every 100 hours or so now.
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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replacing v-drive RWP impellers is just not as fun as direct drive, but it's something you get used to.
When you get it on the lake make sure you check to make sure the one hose didn't collapse internally as designed to do when big time overheat occurs. I hope you have good fortune and nail this down quickly and logically. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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Just out of curiosity what's the PCM part number for the impeller?
There's a lot of brainpower on this site that could probably help you come up with a good sounding reason that this is all your wife's fault one way or another I figure you had a 33% chance of getting the housing on with TOP on the top like Quinner mentioned, maybe it will be as easy as that, |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Impeller part # RP061022 From manual keeping in mind their warning on faulty aftermarket parts and to make sure they're genuine. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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[ [/QUOTE] I haven't opened up the pump yet... but I will certainly pay close attention to that.[/QUOTE]
You don't have to open up the pump, just look at the top of it and TOP is cast into the top of the bearing housing. If it's on right you'll be able to see the lettering. If it's on wrong, you won't see the word TOP This picture shows a Crusader (PCM) pump pirated from the internet with the words TOP showing. It's a pump that's similar to yours, uses a lot of the same parts including the same impeller You'd think they would make the thing people proof and have the three bolts spaced so it could only be assembled one way after replacing the impeller |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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This quote was from a couple of days ago talking about maybe your last overheat. (Beginning of quote) The impeller was definitely chewed up after that overheat. My question is... if I damaged the water pump back in the beginning why would it perform just fine (even now) during fake-a-lake driveway idling but fail out on the water? Isn't a failing pump a failing pump regardless? I get great flow out of the pipes as confirmed by my mechanic when he came to check it all out last season. (end of quote) I figure, just to keep you off the vinegar kick, I'll point out that a chewed up impeller doesn;t happen because you have cruddy exhaust that needs cleaning. But.........a chewed up impeller due to let's say, improper assembly gets worse with every revolution it makes till it's degraded to the point where it no longer is pumping enough to keep the engine or manifolds cool. So.......stay off the juice and look at the pump like mentioned before |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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And, running it dry. The impeller relies on water for a lubricate. It doesn't take much time to degrade without water. Any chance the engine was run without water even briefly? |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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So my wife and I chatted last night about this. We're "thinking about" possibly putting this on a credit card. NOT what I want to do but to be perfectly honest I'm concerned I'll only make this worse. I'm also not sure if I should use the same mechanic I've been using (he comes to the house) or go to a shop. Anyone live near Auburn Ca and/or Sacramento that has any recommendations? An honest shop that caters to the blue collar "regular guy"?
Back Story: I don't have money to burn. Where other folks go on vacations during the year and ALSO go out on the boat... This boat IS our summer vacations. Boating goes back 3 generations in my family... it's in our DNA. And my limited experiences with boat shops so far have been that they overcharge and take their time. (My experience) So one... it's extremely important for me to get this fixed. Two... I don't have the resources to have a shop spend weeks and a couple grand figuring it out. I know... then don't own a boat. |
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2859 |
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I've made the mistake of installing the pump in upside down. Easy mistake to make. I use the hose method with forced water, so it didn't cost me a fried impeller. I learned after that and now my pump has UP and an arrow pointing up to help me remember. JQ |
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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desertskier
Platinum Member Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1114 |
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When it comes to Correct Craft boats the experts on this site are more knowledgeable than any mechanic that you will find. Let them help you by doing what they ask you to do and then provide accurate feedback. Even if you have to throw a few parts at it you will still be way ahead financially. |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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That gives me some confidence. Thank you. UPDATE: I just looked up a video I took of me installing the impeller the first time. I did in fact pay attention to the "UP" and installed it correctly. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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The impeller had been run dry. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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Dave
There's a PM in your inbox |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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Hi Dave
I was thinking about your issues and one thought that popped into my head as something else to check was your circulating pump on the engine if you think your raw water pump is working as it should. That's the circulating pump, not the raw water pump. Same belt drives both, but it would be relatively easy to remove the belt and spin the circulating pump by hand. It should spin smooth and very easy with no funny noises or wobble on the shaft. If it had bad bearings it could have been what made your belt start fraying. If they were real bad you'd hear some metallic scraping noises. you could check that the alternator spins free and easily too. Like I said, just a thought and easy to check edit I see it was mentioned on PN a while back but don't know if you checked it, |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Good idea Ken. I had to change my Shamrocks pump due to a seal leak,a PO had used an automotive pump. Although I had no cooling symptoms or issues most of the impeller fins had rusted off from saltwater use. I doubt thats his trouble but I have heard of the impellers spinning on the shafts.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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This one was an Indmar 5.7 Chevy, picture was stolen from the Mastercraft website And here's a thread from CCF also about an Indmar but I bet they all get their circ water pumps from GM when they buy the engines from them CCF thread The end result of these broken impellers was overheating and there were recalls to replace pumps. Don't know about PCM issues/recalls but I bet it makes some noise if you rotate it by hand if it looks like these. That shaft might spin smoothly with no noise and you'd actually have to take the pump off the engine and take the plate off the pump and inspect it |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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Looks like PCM had issues too.See link below from Ball of Spray. Particularly Jody's posts
Ball of Spray link And here's the service update bulletin mentioned in Jody's post bulletin I think this issue was a while after Dave's 2004 engine was made, but it wouldn't hurt to check the circ water pump since it could happen to any pump over time |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Thanks again guys... I'm just anxious to get started. The weather here won't clear up and I do not want to start this with the distraction of pouring rain and wind.
I've decided I'm going to start at the intake... check every single point for good flow, seal, blockage, cracks, failed parts etc... and work my way to the exhaust. Too much hunting and pecking has been done at this point. I'll be posting photos along the way so you all can hopefully catch any stupid human tricks I may perform. Question: since I'll be pulling all cooling parts to check them anyway should I be replacing all of those gaskets as well along the way? Also, aside from changing out the impeller and thermostat (which are cheap anyway) are there any other parts you think I should just go ahead and replace regardless if they're in good shape or not? Sensors, pumps etc? If, for example, say the circ pumps eventually fail anyway it seems logical to just replace it while it's all opened up. Or is that total overkill and I'd just be throwing parts at it? ;) |
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LiquidObsession
Newbie Joined: April-05-2017 Location: Auburn, Ca Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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btw... I ask because I'm ordering parts this week so I'm ready to go when the weather clears. The list feels small to me for some reason. So far the new parts list is:
Impeller kit Thermostat + gasket Riser gaskets (in case I find myself having to remove the risers as previously discussed) Riser Exhaust hoses |
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