Vinegar Flush Help

Not throwing parts... one of the hoses burst last season due to the overheating. Need to replace it and since it's looking more and more like I'll have to pull the risers that would be the time to do it.

KENO wrote: Having read your threads on MB boat owners and Planet Nautique and here on this issue, one thing that jumps right out at me is that somebody named YOU caused the problem unless there's something you haven't mentioned. I think you know that though. You did routine maintenance replacing a 4 inch long hose between the strainer and trans cooler, replaced the well worn serpentine belt and replaced the impeller.......and then the overheating started Here's a cut and paste from your post on this issue on 7/31/16 on MB Boat Owners Hey guys. Please help. I did some routine maintenance yesterday... Replaced the 4" length hose between my raw water filter and tranny cooler... new impeller and new belt. Tested with a fake a lake setup to ensure all was well. Ran it a good 10-15 min with no issues. Took it out on the lake today and BAM... overheated as soon as I opened her up... actually only half throttle. Smoke but couldn't tell where it was coming from exactly. Horrible rubber smell. No visible damage and once it cooled it cranked right up and sounded good. I shut it down quickly after starting. Checked the intake, hose and filter and all is clear of debris. Doesn't appear water is getting in. I'd be looking at the water pump again, take it off the engine and get a real good look at it. Being a V Drive changing the impeller isn't the easiest job to do in the location it's in

I completely own it. I hope nothing I said came across as an attempted blame shift somehow. I'm pretty sure my cheapskate alter-ego saying "it's easy routine stuff, don't pay a mechanic to do it" is what got me into this trouble to begin with.

You make a valid point... and it's got me thinking. I know I installed the impeller the correct way initially and that there was good water flow out of the pipes in my driveway. I was following the advice from a good half dozen forums on replacing the impeller and was overly cautious. However, it's completely reasonable that if I didn't tighten something enough or missed something else, that I damaged the water pump. The impeller was definitely chewed up after that overheat.

My question is... if I damaged the water pump back in the beginning why would it perform just fine (even now) during fake-a-lake driveway idling but fail out on the water? Isn't a failing pump a failing pump regardless? I get great flow out of the pipes as confirmed by my mechanic when he came to check it all out last season.

Ken's post got me thinking also, on the impeller pump there is clearly a mark that says TOP, check to make sure it is in fact, on TOP.

You probably need to clarify what fake a lake means to you, is it a fake-a-lake plunger device below the boat, that strainer you posted a pic of in the other thread or putting your intake house in a bucket full of water, seem to recall you mentioning bucket in the other thread??

quinner wrote: Ken's post got me thinking also, on the impeller pump there is clearly a mark that says TOP, check to make sure it is in fact, on TOP. You probably need to clarify what fake a lake means to you, is it a fake-a-lake plunger device below the boat, that strainer you posted a pic of in the other thread or putting your intake house in a bucket full of water, seem to recall you mentioning bucket in the other thread??

Impeller installed correctly... positive + mechanic confirmed it afterwards.

BIG ASS BUCKET! Big time overkill. My fake-a-lake is pretty much the only thing that I'm 100% confident and solid on regarding this boat.

LiquidObsession wrote: Impeller installed correctly... positive + mechanic confirmed it afterwards.

I didn't say impeller, I said pump, when replacing the face of the pump it can be installed at the wrong rotation/orientation, that is why the word TOP is stamped on it. Trust me, I have serviced that pump dozens of times on my boat and have almost reinstalled incorrectly more than once.

replacing v-drive RWP impellers is just not as fun as direct drive, but it's something you get used to.

When you get it on the lake make sure you check to make sure the one hose didn't collapse internally as designed to do when big time overheat occurs. I hope you have good fortune and nail this down quickly and logically.

quinner wrote: LiquidObsession wrote: Impeller installed correctly... positive + mechanic confirmed it afterwards. I didn't say impeller, I said pump, when replacing the face of the pump it can be installed at the wrong rotation/orientation, that is why the word TOP is stamped on it. Trust me, I have serviced that pump dozens of times on my boat and have almost reinstalled incorrectly more than once.

I haven't opened up the pump yet... but I will certainly pay close attention to that.

[ [/QUOTE] I haven't opened up the pump yet... but I will certainly pay close attention to that.[/QUOTE]
You don't have to open up the pump, just look at the top of it and TOP is cast into the top of the bearing housing. If it's on right you'll be able to see the lettering.

If it's on wrong, you won't see the word TOP

This picture shows a Crusader (PCM) pump pirated from the internet with the words TOP showing. It's a pump that's similar to yours, uses a lot of the same parts including the same impeller

You'd think they would make the thing people proof and have the three bolts spaced so it could only be assembled one way after replacing the impeller

KENO wrote:    But.........a chewed up impeller due to let's say, improper assembly gets worse with every revolution it makes till it's degraded to the point where it no longer is pumping enough to keep the engine or manifolds cool.

And, running it dry. The impeller relies on water for a lubricate. It doesn't take much time to degrade without water. Any chance the engine was run without water even briefly?

So my wife and I chatted last night about this. We're "thinking about" possibly putting this on a credit card. NOT what I want to do but to be perfectly honest I'm concerned I'll only make this worse. I'm also not sure if I should use the same mechanic I've been using (he comes to the house) or go to a shop. Anyone live near Auburn Ca and/or Sacramento that has any recommendations? An honest shop that caters to the blue collar "regular guy"?

Back Story: I don't have money to burn. Where other folks go on vacations during the year and ALSO go out on the boat... This boat IS our summer vacations. Boating goes back 3 generations in my family... it's in our DNA.   And my limited experiences with boat shops so far have been that they overcharge and take their time. (My experience)
So one... it's extremely important for me to get this fixed. Two... I don't have the resources to have a shop spend weeks and a couple grand figuring it out. I know... then don't own a boat.

LiquidObsession wrote: So my wife and I chatted last night about this. We're "thinking about" possibly putting this on a credit card. NOT what I want to do but to be perfectly honest I'm concerned I'll only make this worse. I'm also not sure if I should use the same mechanic I've been using (he comes to the house) or go to a shop. Anyone live near Auburn Ca and/or Sacramento that has any recommendations? An honest shop that caters to the blue collar "regular guy"? Back Story: I don't have money to burn. Where other folks go on vacations during the year and ALSO go out on the boat... This boat IS our summer vacations. Boating goes back 3 generations in my family... it's in our DNA.   And my limited experiences with boat shops so far have been that they overcharge and take their time. (My experience) So one... it's extremely important for me to get this fixed. Two... I don't have the resources to have a shop spend weeks and a couple grand figuring it out. I know... then don't own a boat.

When it comes to Correct Craft boats the experts on this site are more knowledgeable than any mechanic that you will find. Let them help you by doing what they ask you to do and then provide accurate feedback. Even if you have to throw a few parts at it you will still be way ahead financially.

8122pbrainard wrote: KENO wrote:    But.........a chewed up impeller due to let's say, improper assembly gets worse with every revolution it makes till it's degraded to the point where it no longer is pumping enough to keep the engine or manifolds cool. And, running it dry. The impeller relies on water for a lubricate. It doesn't take much time to degrade without water. Any chance the engine was run without water even briefly?

LiquidObsession wrote: Just to clarify... when I said "chewed up" I meant it wasn't smooth anymore. It was in tact but looked as though it had been heated up... surfaces weren't smooth anymore. Perhaps it had run dry briefly.

The impeller had been run dry.

Hi Dave

I was thinking about your issues and one thought that popped into my head as something else to check was your circulating pump on the engine if you think your raw water pump is working as it should.

That's the circulating pump, not the raw water pump. Same belt drives both, but it would be relatively easy to remove the belt and spin the circulating pump by hand. It should spin smooth and very easy with no funny noises or wobble on the shaft.

If it had bad bearings it could have been what made your belt start fraying. If they were real bad you'd hear some metallic scraping noises.

you could check that the alternator spins free and easily too.

Like I said, just a thought and easy to check    edit I see it was mentioned on PN a while back but don't know if you checked it,

Gary S wrote: Good idea Ken. I had to change my Shamrocks pump due to a seal leak,a PO had used an automotive pump. Although I had no cooling symptoms or issues most of the impeller fins had rusted off from saltwater use. I doubt thats his trouble but I have heard of the impellers spinning on the shafts.

This one was an Indmar 5.7 Chevy, picture was stolen from the Mastercraft website



And here's a thread from CCF also about an Indmar but I bet they all get their circ water pumps from GM when they buy the engines from them

CCF thread

The end result of these broken impellers was overheating and there were recalls to replace pumps. Don't know about PCM issues/recalls but I bet it makes some noise if you rotate it by hand if it looks like these.

That shaft might spin smoothly with no noise and you'd actually have to take the pump off the engine and take the plate off the pump and inspect it

Thanks again guys... I'm just anxious to get started. The weather here won't clear up and I do not want to start this with the distraction of pouring rain and wind.

I've decided I'm going to start at the intake... check every single point for good flow, seal, blockage, cracks, failed parts etc... and work my way to the exhaust. Too much hunting and pecking has been done at this point. I'll be posting photos along the way so you all can hopefully catch any stupid human tricks I may perform.

Question: since I'll be pulling all cooling parts to check them anyway should I be replacing all of those gaskets as well along the way? Also, aside from changing out the impeller and thermostat (which are cheap anyway) are there any other parts you think I should just go ahead and replace regardless if they're in good shape or not? Sensors, pumps etc? If, for example, say the circ pumps eventually fail anyway it seems logical to just replace it while it's all opened up.
Or is that total overkill and I'd just be throwing parts at it? ;)