80 SN 351W issues FINAL UPDATE |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21113 |
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Wow, intake manifold replacement without pulling the distributor... would never have thought to try that. Interesting approach.
I agree that you need to go through your ignition system, the timing is especially suspect. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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When you check the timing and see if the advance isn't rusted up, that's a good time to see if you have points or an EI conversion in the distributor. |
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sailsail
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Will do! |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3594 |
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Wow, Chevy Orange on a Ford engine. The Ford Blue guys are going to have a heart attack!
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MourningWood
Gold Member Joined: June-13-2014 Location: NorCal Status: Offline Points: 886 |
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A little bit of my morning coffee came out my nose.... :)
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sailsail
Senior Member Joined: December-08-2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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I'm sure they will get over it. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3594 |
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I'm not positive but I don't think a Ford will run correctly if painted Chevy Orange.
(I run the 351W and it is a great engine but I'm still a Chevy guy at heart) |
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gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 943 |
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First, I think you may be correct about the orange LOL. Second, I've had Chevy's and Fords both since before I started high school (yes, I'm showing my age ... and also that I live in the middle of the US). One thing though I've never been is a Ram .... |
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JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
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fgroce
Senior Member Joined: July-05-2016 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 350 |
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I happen t agree it is a known fact that Ford engines will not run well, they tend to skip and have bad plugs when painted Chevy orange. A can for Ford blue will probably fix the problem with no other work needed. Hope you get done in time to run it at the lake before it gets cold.
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FGroce
88 Ski Nautique For 28 years Now 2002 Ski Nautique |
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WinterTurtle
Groupie Joined: July-18-2017 Location: Summerfield, NC Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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As long as it's American! |
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1979 Southwind 18 351w
Not Running - All Potential! |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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You mean like my Avalanche from Mexico or like a Toyota or vw from the US
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10667 |
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Like you just asked in another thread.............................updates?
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sailsail
Senior Member Joined: December-08-2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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I was on my work week (I work seven days on seven days off). I just moved the boat back to the driveway and will start your troubleshooting tomorrow.
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sailsail
Senior Member Joined: December-08-2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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Well it gets better.
In order to check my distributor I removed it and I marked all the wires on the cap... which quickly rubbed away :-( fortunately I know where 1 is. The million dollar question. Looking down at the distributor going counter clockwise should it be 1 8 7 3 6 2 4 5 assuming looking aft (disturber in front of me) cylinder one is the first cylinder on the left hand side, followed by 2 3 4 and cylinder 5 is the first cylinder on the right hand side (again looking aft) followed by 6 7 8? Thanks again! you are guys are amazing THE BEST PART. When removing the distributor a screw fell down into the opening.... It took me three hours to fish it out: |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10667 |
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I think you need to paint it Mopar baby blue and then change your firing order to 1 8 4 5 6 2 7 3 and give it a shot
If this engine is an 80 RR 351 with the original cam that would be your firing order. What you listed today and a while back is the early 302 RR firing order I looked back thru this thread and didn't see any mention of the firing order discrepancy. Like you said, counter clockwise around the cap and your cylinder numbering is correct |
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sailsail
Senior Member Joined: December-08-2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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I am assuming.
It is a 1980 SN, that's reverse rotation right? The distributor is outside hanging upside-down with a fresh coat of blue paint ;) |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10667 |
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It should be RR. It wouldn't run at all if it was normal rotation with the RR firing order.
You did mention that it was rebuilt in the 90's, maybe somebody used an early 302 cam which has the firing order you mentioned. To check your firing order look at the thread in the link, On page 2 about halfway down there is a post on how to check your firing order with some small rags over the plug holes You could do that to see what firing order your cam requires. Read the whole thread, there may be some similarities with your problem link |
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sailsail
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You were correct. I remember about 3 or 4 of them being in order. |
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sailsail
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What should the timing be at idle, what about at high rpm? Also what RPM to i set it to when I adjust the timing. Does the idle timing matter anyway? I don't think there is a way to adjust the curve on these.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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Yes it all matters, else you will have drivability symptoms
aim for 10 initial at 650-700 rpm, and final 35-36 should be all in by 3000rpm. If you can't get those numbers, then something is amiss and we'll guide you through it |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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sailsail
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What's my course of action if there are no visible timing marks on the harmonic balancer ? I have not rotated it through yet but I have a bad feeling ....
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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All you need to find is tdc and use a timing light with dial-in advance.
Else, measure the dampener, and order an adhesive timing tape of the correct length to place on it. Or, locate TDC ,and measure dampener circumference. ratio 10/360 and 36/360 to the total circumference, and you can calculate the arc length from TDC for the two targets, and mark these on the dampener. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Never seen one yet that was not marked TDC |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I feel you should rotate the engine. A breaker bar and a socket works great on the crank bolt. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21113 |
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15/16
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sailsail
Senior Member Joined: December-08-2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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found them,,,,, No fancy sticker like I am used too and I can't read crap in this texas sun. I started her up and played with the distro to see what sounded right but will wait till this evening when the sun is down.
Questions: 1. I should leave my timing light advance set at 0 correct? 2. No load idle RPM should be 600? I was able to get the RPM back down to 400rpm but the boat was shaking a bunch... Before with the issues I had to set the idle screw at ~1000 for it to run.. I don't know if timing is the issue at play here but regardless I need to get it fixed first. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3594 |
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Sounds like your making progress.
If your timing light is adjustable and you are setting base timing leave the light at zero and time the engine to 10. It is important that the engine be at idle when this is set so you won't have any mechanical advance coming in messing you up. I think my 78 351W said to set timing at idle 650 RPM. Set the timing, readjust the idle back to 650 and check the timing to make sure it did not move. Now idle is set at a true 10 degrees base timing. Next turn the dial on the adjustable timing light to 35 degrees and check your timing again with the engine now turning 3,500 Rpm. Looking at your marks this time the timing should be pointing at 0, zero. This will confirm your distributor is operating correctly and advancing to 35 degrees at 3,500 rpm. When watching the timing Mark move as you bring up the RPM you should see it advance smoothly and consistently . |
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sailsail
Senior Member Joined: December-08-2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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My timing marks don't go above thirty. They start at 10ATC and go through zero to 30 BTC
I assume it should be at 10 before top dead center at idle and then thirty BTC at 3500 rpm? Or should I guess on 35/36? After paint for tonight's timing run (prolly in two hours if I don't do it in the AM) |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21113 |
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If your light has the advance dial, use it. You only need to see the TDC (0deg) mark on the balancer with an adjustable light.
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sailsail
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UPDATE!
Well I am lost! I adjusted the timing exactly as stated but something is still amiss. (see video and hear noises at the bottom of this post) Initially when running it was great! but the timing was off the charts dawg (R&M reference, sorry) I would estimate the rpm at 2500 (twenty five hundred) the timing was around 45-55 BTC. but did not have the normal strong sound it had before all the issues started I then adjusted the timing at idle so that it was at 10 BTC at 600-700rpm and 35 (based off of cheap timing light with dial) at 3500 rpm. however it is making the sounds you can hear in the video below. While the engine is running better the sound worries me and I know it will not run well under load. What could this sound be!?!?! recall I get great compression in all cylinders. Click here to see the video of it running at idle |
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