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Leaking Cylinder

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jerry.nichols@m View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerry.nichols@m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Leaking Cylinder
    Posted: November-30-2017 at 8:47am
Does this sound right? I took my '07 211, 5.7, 330hp (550 hours) in to be winterized and I asked them to look at the engine which was idling a little bit rough. Engine smoothed out at 100rpm and higher. I was thinking bad gas, or gas filter. Boat shop said number 7 cylinder had 90% leakage. Need to pull motor and send to machine shop. Looking at $4-5k to fix. Boat has been maintained regularly. Oil change about every 50 hours. Boat has never given me an ounce of problems before. Two questions, does this sound right and should it be good as new when finished?
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Gary S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 9:05am
If it were me I would have asked them where that 90% is going- exhaust, intake or crankcase. Might be wise to get a second opinion don't you think ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 9:29am
I guess from this you can assume they did a leakdown test on the engine.

90% leakage would mean you're driving around in a v7 with one dead cylinder just going along for the ride.

How's it run otherwise, like when it smooths out above 1000 rpm all the way up to full throttle.

I'd ask the shop for more detail and like Gary said, get a second opinion from someplace else

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jerry.nichols@m View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerry.nichols@m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 10:03am
Typo in my original post: engine runs smooth from 1000rpm and higher.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 10:42am
Not enough info
Like said above "where is it leaking?"   Second opinion for sure, and be there when they leak it. May just need an upper end fix.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 10:59am
90% is catastrophic. If 90% is true than the chances are overwhelming that work will be needed to both top and bottom. Further testing is a waste of time. Its toast.
Me? I would tear it down and fix it myself. but you aren't me.
MMotors has a screaming deal on a NEW, not rebuilt long block/ $2900
Just drop this off at the shop and tell them to change it.
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/350ci-vortec-base-marine-engine-1996-current-replacement-p-109.html
You are also (likely) going to need exhaust manifolds and risers. #7 tells me it was water in the manifold entering through the exhaust valve. 7 is is the furthest downhill in a ski boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 11:55am
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

Further testing is a waste of time. Its toast.


Really
Guess that rules out:    carbon under exhaust valve, burnt valve stuck valve, ect
Stand by my   "second opinion autopsy" idea before pulling an engine and disassembling cause so and so's mechanic said "90%"   You could get lucky here, but not always   Removing and replacing is my last option    JMO



























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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 12:01pm
Let me clear that up a little. The heads coming off anyway and then you'll know for sure.
You know the heads coming off so why go chasing after silly crap? It is now time to strip and inspect not spend $110 an hour for some AMI graduate mouth breather at the dealership to make his best guess.

Better?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 12:02pm
(I said if that 90% is true)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolleronariver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 12:04pm
I wouldn't assume that it's toast yet. Like several guys said, find out where it is leaking from, a dropped valve could cause 90% leakage too. I do think you would hear some noise though if the valve was that messed up. I also think you would notice a power drop even above 1,000rpm. Just my $.02. I'm not a master mechanic but I do like working on things and I've seen valve and head issues cause things like this. I also agree that the number 7 cylinder could be water damage since 7 and 8 or the two lowest cylinders.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

Let me clear that up a little. The heads coming off anyway and then you'll know for sure.
You know the heads coming off so why go chasing after silly crap? It is now time to strip and inspect not spend $110 an hour for some AMI graduate mouth breather at the dealership to make his best guess.

Better?


Yep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 12:46pm
I 100% never trust anyone who says the first option is IT'S JUNK BUILD NEW MOTOR.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 1:42pm
Pull the number 7 spark plug and examine it. Post pictures here we can help.
Do a compression check on this cylinder and see what you have.
A leak down will tell you more but if you have 160+ compression the problem is elsewhere.
Vortex engines have high compression.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 2:02pm
Jerry, some great advice above. What is your winter storage plan? I ask because if you have the dealer winterize it, then store it yourself, it would allow you to get it to someone for a compression test or do it yourself. Like others I think it's worth taking some time or some money to look further into the problem. Pulling the engine and rebuilding will solve the problem for 4-5 thousand at the dealer, whether there was a terminal problem or not!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 6:15pm
It could possibly be they meant that cyl was at 90% (10% leakage) which would be a bit more believable on such a new engine.

If so, it's not going to leave you stranded anytime soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

It could possibly be they meant that cyl was at 90% (10% leakage) which would be a bit more believable on such a new engine.

If so, it's not going to leave you stranded anytime soon.

Can't imagine they would be quoting a removal and rebuild if #7 was 10% down in compression.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-01-2017 at 7:11pm
Would an engine with mechanical damage and serious loss of compression smooth out over 1,000 rpms?? Does it smooth out over 1,000 in neutral, under a load, or both?

I'd definitely be ruling out simple ignition problems like cap, rotor etc. before pulling the block.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-01-2017 at 7:27pm
In my experience 7 cylinder engines can be remarkably smooth, I've even been fooled on a V-Twin tractor engine for a short time not realizing was running on one cylinder. RPMs mask a lot of things. I believe Joe might have experience with running a 7 cylinder engine as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-02-2017 at 8:36am
I hope Jerry comes back with more information.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerry.nichols@m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-05-2017 at 9:56am
Thank you all for helping me with my issue. I am going to the boat shop this Saturday (its about 200 miles away) with questions I've collected from you all from this forum.

I will return and post my finds. Please stay tuned and thank you all again for helping me.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-05-2017 at 5:15pm
Thank you Jerry for not whisping away into the vapor.
We are genuinely interested so please do come back and enlighten us with your findings.
John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-05-2017 at 11:52pm
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

Thank you Jerry for not whisping away into the vapor.
We are genuinely interested so please do come back and enlighten us with your findings.
John


+1....



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2017 at 12:10am
Solid advice there jbear. Knew you'd be along shorty, can't pass up an engine repair thread...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sport1999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2017 at 8:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2017 at 8:38am
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

Thank you Jerry for not whisping away into the vapor.
We are genuinely interested so please do come back and enlighten us with your findings.
John

Jerry,
I too want to thank you for not forgetting about us. We all have seen some come on with a problem, we try to help offering advice and then hear nothing back. It's disappointing since I and I'm sure others would like to hear if we were able to help.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2017 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Solid advice there jbear. Knew you'd be along shorty, can't pass up an engine repair thread...


as you know...I understand none of what these guys are talking about....but I sure like the way they say it.


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