Forums
NautiqueParts.comNautiqueSkins.com - Correct Craft Upholstery and Part
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Strut Alignment Procedure
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Strut Alignment Procedure

 Post Reply Post Reply Page    <123>
Author
SNobsessed View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: October-21-2007
Location: IA
Status: Offline
Points: 6575
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:14am
Not to beat a dead horse, but any chance you are calling calipers 'feelers'?

I can't see how you could slide a feeler in between the couplers when they are bolted together.

These are
calipers
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 36455
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:32am
Cole,
Your profile says you are a paper mill mechanical engineer. There are hundreds of couplings and shafts in a mill that require alignment. How do you align them? Maybe you could take a look at some and if you don't actually do the alignments ask someone who does for some first hand visuals and pointers. Does you mill utilize laser alignment on couplings and shafts? They sure are handy but unfortunately not practical on our small inboards.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
wiscofoot View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: February-16-2018
Location: Neenah, Wi
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:37am
No chance. And I didn’t add a zero like I said earlier. There as around 1 thousandth or less gap between the faces around the circumference when they were bolted up. I wiggles the .001 feeler right In there. Makes sense because they are probably warped and would likely warp away from each other at the outside if they are not parallel. I haven’t seen a torque spec on the nuts so I didn’t lock them down extremely tight either. Either way it was a worthless measurement because they should’ve been flush and it didn’t tell me anything about the concentricity of the system. Is everyone all good?
Back to Top
Hollywood View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: February-04-2004
Location: Twin Lakes, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 12866
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:40am
my confusion level and your post count are directly related.

Maybe he's only a mecanical engineer and doesn't do alignments.

Fix your profile Pete
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 36455
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:42am
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

No chance. And I didn’t add a zero like I said earlier. There as around 1 thousandth or less gap between the faces around the circumference when they were bolted up. I wiggles the .001 feeler right In there. Makes sense because they are probably warped and would likely warp away from each other at the outside if they are not parallel. I haven’t seen a torque spec on the nuts so I didn’t lock them down extremely tight either. Either way it was a worthless measurement because they should’ve been flush and it didn’t tell me anything about the concentricity of the system. Is everyone all good?

Again:
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

The .003" max between the faces is the DIFFERANCE top to bottom port to starboard.   

You can't measure the difference between the coupling faces when they are bolted together. If you have a gap between the faces when they are bolted together, then you have a major misalignment.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
Duane in Indy View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-26-2015
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:44am
Probably "LoveJoy " couplers that don't require precision alignment
Lovejoy "Spidex" Jaw Couplings

KenO or somebody made up a laser type alignment tool that centered inside the cutlas and shot up to the back of the trans coupler. Kinda like a laser pointer on a rifle bore sight tool. You could center the strut to the log and rough set the engine
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-05-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3478
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:47am
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Probably "LoveJoy " couplers that don't require precision alignment
Lovejoy "Spidex" Jaw Couplings

KenO or somebody made up a laser type alignment tool that centered inside the cutlas and shot up to the back of the trans coupler. Kinda like a laser pointer on a rifle bore sight tool. You could center the strut to the log and rough set the engine


It was Grant MacLaren and his band of old timers that did the laser alignment. There are pictures on CCF or maybe on Grant's website

Edit Here's a link to the CCF thread

link
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 36455
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:49am
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Fix your profile Pete

Fixed after 12 years! I never noticed the spelling error until Mr. "eagle eye" Ken mentioned it. but, I never go into my profile anyway!!


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-05-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3478
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:50am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Fix your profile Pete

Fixed after 12 years! I never noticed the spelling error until Mr. "eagle eye" Ken mentioned it. but, I never go into my profile anyway!!


Good job Pete

Somebody else pointed it out to me though didn't you Duane
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 36455
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:51am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Probably "LoveJoy " couplers that don't require precision alignment
Lovejoy "Spidex" Jaw Couplings

KenO or somebody made up a laser type alignment tool that centered inside the cutlas and shot up to the back of the trans coupler. Kinda like a laser pointer on a rifle bore sight tool. You could center the strut to the log and rough set the engine


It was Grant MacLaren and his band of old timers that did the laser alignment. There are pictures on CCF or maybe on Grant's website

Edit Here's a link to the CCF thread

link

Yes, Grant did use a laser but that's for finding the log and coupling center and not the actual coupling face alignment. It's just like CC uses to impress!


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
Duane in Indy View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-26-2015
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:53am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Fix your profile Pete

Fixed after 12 years! I never noticed the spelling error until Mr. "eagle eye" Ken mentioned it. but, I never go into my profile anyway!!


Now that you can spell it you are one!!! Must have been prior to Spell Check. Betting you still have an Etch A Sketch for a CAD System
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-05-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3478
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:54am
Is this what a chat room is like?
Back to Top
wiscofoot View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: February-16-2018
Location: Neenah, Wi
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 11:27am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Cole,
Your profile says you are a paper mill mechanical engineer. There are hundreds of couplings and shafts in a mill that require alignment. How do you align them? Maybe you could take a look at some and if you don't actually do the alignments ask someone who does for some first hand visuals and pointers. Does you mill utilize laser alignment on couplings and shafts? They sure are handy but unfortunately not practical on our small inboards.


The millwrights do the alignments and our engineering group has nothing to do with them. I am not the machining/mechanic flavor of ME either. If I knew someone here that would do the work for cash and not marina rates I would have just paid to have it done My work is in thermodynamic systems and fluid handling/metering and structural modifications. I have basically no tools of my own because my family had them all up north before I moved down here and I have been extremely rushed when trying to work on this for a variety of reasons I’m not going to post on here. I promise you I am much more competent than my posts would lead you to believe.   I am just not a 20/40/60 year veteran vintage correct craft mechanic. I do appreciate all the help from you guys.
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 36455
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 11:37am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Cole, if you don't actually do the alignments ask someone who does for some first hand visuals and pointers.

Find a friendly millwright!


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
wiscofoot View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: February-16-2018
Location: Neenah, Wi
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 11:48am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Cole, if you don't actually do the alignments ask someone who does for some first hand visuals and pointers.

Find a friendly millwright!


That’s like finding a taxidermist that isn’t creepy. You guys have provided more than enough information I have just failed to execute.
Back to Top
wiscofoot View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: February-16-2018
Location: Neenah, Wi
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 11:53am
Can you guys help me confirm my shaft length so I can get the order in by noon for the new system? Otherwise I won’t get it by next weekend. It’s a ‘76 Martinique (seller told me it was a 78 until I got the title). There is a “50” cut into the shaft near the coupling, would guess that’s the length but don’t want to gamble.
Back to Top
wiscofoot View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: February-16-2018
Location: Neenah, Wi
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 1:10pm
Skipped lunch and went home and measured it. 50” tip to tip. ARE will be here next week.
Back to Top
SNobsessed View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: October-21-2007
Location: IA
Status: Offline
Points: 6575
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 5:43pm
It is money well spent.

Is your prop in good shape too?
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin
Back to Top
wiscofoot View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: February-16-2018
Location: Neenah, Wi
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 5:53pm
Yes. I have 2 3 blades that have both been refurbed and not used yet. One is 13x13 and the other that came with the boat is a 13x14.
Back to Top
gt40KS View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: August-05-2017
Location: Wichita Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

... KenO or somebody made up a laser type alignment tool that centered inside the cutlas and shot up to the back of the trans coupler. Kinda like a laser pointer on a rifle bore sight tool. You could center the strut to the log and rough set the engine


Brilliant idea whoever thought of it !! I think I'll use that with my upcoming install. Need something to get the engine fairly close while setting the block in since I have all new mounts (and the originals were no help, since they weren't all that close to begin with)
JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40
Back to Top
wiscofoot View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: February-16-2018
Location: Neenah, Wi
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2018 at 4:35pm
Duane or Ken, any details on making the laser alignment tool?
Back to Top
Duane in Indy View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-26-2015
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2018 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

Duane or Ken, any details on making the laser alignment tool?


Go back up to April 6 in this thread and Pete gives you a LINK to click on that takes you to Grants site. Really clever tool. Grant is out of StLouis, Mo. Really innovative guy and very interesting to talk to. BTW, he skied last year at 80 years young!!!!!!

















Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)
Back to Top
SNobsessed View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: October-21-2007
Location: IA
Status: Offline
Points: 6575
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2018 at 5:01pm
Some one else had adapted one to fit inside strut. Both are very cool.
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin
Back to Top
scorban2 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: September-15-2017
Location: IL
Status: Offline
Points: 24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scorban2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-12-2018 at 1:09pm
In my debating of whether or not to break my strut free and realign, I'd planned to machine a sleeve so that I could put by .223 boresight tool into the strut. Figure if you centered the engine L/R, you could get the strut closer/easier than trying to use the shaft.
Back to Top
pedricd View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: August-31-2016
Location: Northwest ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 61
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pedricd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2018 at 10:49am
Originally posted by scorban2 scorban2 wrote:

In my debating of whether or not to break my strut free and realign, I'd planned to machine a sleeve so that I could put by .223 boresight tool into the strut. Figure if you centered the engine L/R, you could get the strut closer/easier than trying to use the shaft.


I went through this same thing after I bought my 92 SPN. Some advice:

Engine L/R is the last thing to worry about.

ARE definitely is the way to go...so many reasons, you won't regret it... I cut out my old shaft very quickly and easily with a sawzall, nice metal blade and some gear oil...no sparks either (which I would be concerned about with a grinder)

It sounds like you already have the strut bedded in, but are concerned about alignment. The biggest thing here is centering in the log. For whatever reason, after fully tightening everything down with the bedding my shaft shifted off-center in the log to port more than I liked (dry fit was fine!).... If you end up in a similar situation there is a way out of this without pulling the strut off and re-doing everything... Grab a big pipe wrench, put it on the strut and "tweak" it until it is centered...obviously within reason (can't be worse than what's already happened to it!), and use a cloth so you don't gum up your strut. If the shaft is pressed against the log it is probably too off for this and you are better off re-bedding.

If you are off vertically, and not by too much I wouldn't worry it as long as you can get the engine aligned, it doesn't have to be perfect. And don't forget to take a little vertical "strain" off of the shaft when looking through the log when the shaft is free from the transmission as gravity will pull it down slightly from it's "natural" position in the cutlass.

Remember alignment starts at the strut, with a straight shaft through the log (centered) and then you worry about the engine (which I found easier to line up than I thought it would). So from stern forward.

EDIT: Apologies as I didn't realize that scorban was not the original poster, but hopefully above is useful
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-05-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3478
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2018 at 11:02am
Originally posted by pedricd pedricd wrote:

[QUOTE=scorban2] I cut out my old shaft very quickly and easily with a sawzall, nice metal blade and some gear oil...no sparks either (which I would be concerned about with a grinder)


Why would that be?

Both of them have electric motors that spark when you're using them.....................and the shaft is Stainless Steel.

No difference in using a metal cutting blade in your Sawzall or a cutoff wheel on the shaft as far as sparks go.
Back to Top
pedricd View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: August-31-2016
Location: Northwest ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 61
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pedricd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2018 at 11:31am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:


No difference in using a metal cutting blade in your Sawzall or a cutoff wheel on the shaft as far as sparks go.


I stand corrected :), probably an unfounded concern (don't have lots of SS cutting experience)... Either way you go, should be short work
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-05-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3478
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2018 at 12:04pm
I think I should stand corrected.

One of those little voices in my head said I was all screwed up

SS does spark, I just tried it and did a little reading too.

The wheel probably gives off more sparks than the metal cutting blade in the Sawzall, when cutting the shaft, but they probably both cause sparks

I've cut them with a grinder without any issues.
Back to Top
Duane in Indy View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-26-2015
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2018 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

I think I should stand corrected.

One of those little voices in my head said I was all screwed up

SS does spark, I just tried it and did a little reading too.

The wheel probably gives off more sparks than the metal cutting blade in the Sawzall, when cutting the shaft, but they probably both cause sparks

I've cut them with a grinder without any issues.


It's more dependent upon the grade or alloy of S/S. ie. the carbon content
Even if it does not spark the debris given off will melt into carpet or upholstery So be careful and cover any areas you don't want harmed
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)
Back to Top
wiscofoot View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: February-16-2018
Location: Neenah, Wi
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2018 at 2:15pm
So I used a steering wheel/harmonic balancer puller to get my old shaft out. I had the puller already and I didn't want to fool around with cutting the shaft or pressing it out against the trans flange. In the future I may have a local shop straighten and cut a double taper on the old shaft.

I sent the 5200 back to Amazon because there is no way I want to ever try and remove the recessed strut with that stuff in between. There was no sealant used before and it didn't leak. I used 4200 instead. Used the old shaft to get my strut bent straight so the shaft came naturally through the center of the log. I am very satisfied with the alignment in this regard.

So all that is done and the new shaft is in the boat with coupler installed. I checked the alignment following Pete's video. This is where I want input to make sure I did it correctly, as it was the source of MASSIVE confusion for all parties earlier in the thread (because I measured with the bolts somewhat tight).

Here is how I measured parallelism between the 2 coupler faces.

1. Installed 4 bolts and nuts and tightened them so the system was fully assembled.
2. Loosened the nuts off by about 3/8" so they were not engaged on the washers.
3. Wiggled the shaft side a little bit so there was clearance for feeler gauges
4. Measured gap around circumference.

Top-.       0.015"
Left-       0.012"
Right-     0.012
Bottom- 0.009"

To me this would indicate that Left/Right alignment is good and that I need to raise the front and/or lower the back to decrease the 0.006" difference.

Do the bolts need to be fully removed to take this measurement? In Petes video it appeared that they were just loosened. Also, in the video I am not able to see the engine mounts as references are made to them.

Can someone give me a clear description of the nut that needs to be loosened prior to turning the vertical threaded rod used for vertical adjustment? I read somewhere else it is 15/16", is that correct (have to buy wrench)?

Do you think I'll have to adjust both front and back mounts or can I just lower the back mounts to make up the 0.006" difference.?

Thanks
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page    <123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Copyright 2018 | Bagley Productions, LLC