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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Carburetor
    Posted: May-27-2018 at 3:18pm
Eric:

If the engine runs well -- except for hole-shot -- I would look at accelerator pump and engine timing. What is your current degrees of advance at idle?

With the accelerator pump, the instant that the throttle linkage moves, the accelerator pump must start to engage. No delay. Also, there are different cam profiles that will modify how the accelerator pump engages: duration, volume, timing, etc:. You may want to watch the video below for some good tips.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eric Harrell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-27-2018 at 9:03am
Ok.. I am back .. New QFT installed.. on the 78.. runs much better.... but.. it still seems to struggle out of the whole.. could a bad pic valve prevent the secondaries from opening. I also have a lot of slack in the throttle cable.. but the carb is still going wide open..??

Anyone interested in my old 450cfm holley?

Thanks guys
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by shierh shierh wrote:

Need to use approved stuff for the ins company. if anything happens and you have a part that isn't approved then an exclusion in the policy will likely bounce your claim.   If its USCG approved then it is insurance company approved.
I am not aware of a body of water in the US and territorial waters that are not under USCG authority.   They are the feds, trump all local and state.    


Probably a smart idea to follow their regs anyway, then you are covered.

Little off topic:    Our Funny Car inlet fuel line from the tank to the pump is Aluminum 3" diameter!!   15 gallons in 5 seconds
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 5:13pm
Need to use approved stuff for the ins company. if anything happens and you have a part that isn't approved then an exclusion in the policy will likely bounce your claim.   If its USCG approved then it is insurance company approved.
I am not aware of a body of water in the US and territorial waters that are not under USCG authority.   They are the feds, trump all local and state.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by shierh shierh wrote:

Double flair only has one more step outside of a single, whats hard about that especially on copper.   The sierra part doesn't appear to be a double flair. Isnt the double for higher pressure?   got to look it up I guess.


Good point on not being hard to do. Just need the correct tool. Yes on the dbl flare for high pressure. Another type uses a single flare but has a "flared sleeve" that mates up with the flared tube. We use that type on the race car a lot because you can tighten and loosen multiple times with out affecting the integrity of the tube flare.   NHRA and other sanctioning bodies allow the use of aluminum fuel lines but prohibits copper.   Don't know bout USCG. Seems to me that I read somewhere that the USCG rules only apply to waters that they govern. Different can of worms.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by shierh shierh wrote:

Double flair only has one more step outside of a single, whats hard about that especially on copper.   .

Steve,
Well the last time I made a double, I'm glad I practiced on some extra tubing first. I always find that even with the gauge, getting the proper distance of tubing clamped into the flare tool is the hard part. If you make double enough, it's easy. Do you make them frequently?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 4:11pm
Double flair only has one more step outside of a single, whats hard about that especially on copper.   The sierra part doesn't appear to be a double flair. Isnt the double for higher pressure?   got to look it up I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by scootdogydog scootdogydog wrote:

fuel line

I updated this so Pete can add this along with tubes to his cart.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by scootdogydog scootdogydog wrote:

fuel line

I updated this so Pete can add this along with tubes to his cart.


Scott, I like this one, looks well made and will take care of the bending issues plus no need for barb fittings.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Page 52 about 5/8 of the way down the page they cleverly tuck in the fuel pump to carburetor line.

It says

"Metal fuel lines used on the engine, i.e. the fuel line from the fuel pump to the carburetor, may be made of materials other than those listed. This line is usually supplied with the engine".

Thanks Ken. Yup, the statement is tucked in there.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by shierh shierh wrote:

The off the shelf tube isn't going to be made for the wedge, original tube is designed to hook up to a carb that is angled back, move it level and its off by 12degrees.    

Steve,
You missed it:
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

I did have to replace my hard line to the carb on the 302. I bought the PCM and did have to do some slight re bending at the carb since the PO put a wedge spacer under it.

Again, how's your double flaring skills?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:47pm
The off the shelf tube isn't going to be made for the wedge, original tube is designed to hook up to a carb that is angled back, move it level and its off by 12degrees.   My steel tube is New, I will try to bend it to fit otherwise copper will be second choice and Yes I did read the USGC regs and verified the type. Seamless   annealed copper which is HVAC tube.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:18pm
I have brass on my boat. I think it came directly from PCM a few years back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:12pm
Page 52 about 5/8 of the way down the page they cleverly tuck in the fuel pump to carburetor line.

It says

"Metal fuel lines used on the engine, i.e. the fuel line from the fuel pump to the carburetor, may be made of materials other than those listed. This line is usually supplied with the engine".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:07pm
You could go to a link earlier in this thread that takes you to a thread with the link or you could click right about here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:



Ken knows that the answer is in the regs and the easier reading ABYC guide.

Try page 52 of the ABYC guide.


Ken,
Still going through the guide but page 52 + covers from the tank to the engine. It states "to the engine" is typically the "fuel pump". So, give me a page hint for the line from the pump to the carb.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 2:56pm
And where might we find the aforementioned guide?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

] I 'd stick with the pre made since it's steel. I don't know if the copper would meet the regs. I'm sure Ken would know!

BTW, how are you at making double flares? The line is inverted double flared.


Ken knows that the answer is in the regs and the easier reading ABYC guide.

Try page 52 of the ABYC guide.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by shierh shierh wrote:

I may try to bend the hard tube, it is new and don't want to throw it out.    Second choice would be hvac copper tube, Got to dig out my flair tool and get a new tube bender.   Last will be rubber hose.

Steve,
Here's a link to the pre made hard line. Scott's took me to Overtons search page and all they sell are tubes!!    I 'd stick with the pre made since it's steel. I don't know if the copper would meet the regs. I'm sure Ken would know!

BTW, how are you at making double flares? The line is inverted double flared.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scootdogydog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 1:36pm
fuel line

I updated this so Pete can add this along with tubes to his cart.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 1:10pm
I may try to bend the hard tube, it is new and don't want to throw it out.    Second choice would be hvac copper tube, Got to dig out my flair tool and get a new tube bender.   Last will be rubber hose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2018 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

You might notice that Pete did some learnin' about USCG regs in the linked thread

It's another pick on Pete Day!! Ken, Yes, I did learn something thanks' to you. I must have been misinformed by info off the internet or, come to think about it, another member who doesn't visit with us much anymore.

BTW, I did have to replace my hard line to the carb on the 302. I bought the PCM and did have to do some slight re bending at the carb since the PO put a wedge spacer under it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2018 at 9:44pm
FWIW.     I run a length of "fire sleeve" over my gas line from the pump to the carb.   Not only gives some fire protection but also insulates the line and helps guard against vapor lock.   ALL of my fuel lines on my Experimental aircraft have fire sleeves on them.
Cheap insurance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2018 at 8:41pm
Some people have rebent the original line enough to fit.

Some have used USCG approved A1-15 rubber fuel line.

Sierra sells a couple

one is part number 18-8115 it's 25 inches long

another is 18-8114 and it's 31 inches long.

Or you can make your own out of the same A1-15 hose or bend up some 3/8 tubing.

Here's a good link with links to the coast guard regs and the ABYC talking about fuel systems.

link

You might notice that Pete did some learnin' about USCG regs in the linked thread
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2018 at 11:37am
Guessing the biggest issue with changing carburetor angle and spacer size is going to be the hard fuel line.   What did others do regarding this issue?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WinterTurtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2018 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:


edit   added pic
.


Duane- Your studs look quite plumb to the carb mounting surface of the wedge. Did you rebore the the stud holes while you had the manifold in the shop? I am wondering if there are any easy ways to correct stud angle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2018 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by WinterTurtle WinterTurtle wrote:


. Is there a consensus on how important / beneficial angled spacers are for the PCM application?


The issue you will run into is PCM uses their standard spacer as the PCV vacuum source, as far as I know there are no aftermarket angled spacers that have that port. I was able to make my own using a phenolic wedge,drilling a hole in the back to glue in a tube to connect the hose,then routing grooves in the base to the primary side to supply the vacuum copying the Holman Moody aluminum 2 bbl style.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2018 at 3:28pm
[QUOTED] OK, I'm struggling with the math! How many degrees do you add for the pitch of the boat when it's underway?    Many of our hulls including yours run bow high. That no longer puts the carb level. [/QUOTE]

Bow position depends whether I'm in forward or reverse.

Just leave it stock and you'll be fine If it gives you trouble later then shim it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WinterTurtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2018 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Sounds like it didn't have a angled spacer originally. How has it performed without one?
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

It's run for 40 something years without a wedge but some people like to run it more level with a wedge. Personal choice whether you do this or not


I haven't had it running yet but hopefully in the next ~10 days I'll be ready to give her a try.

If that's how CC built them then I'll not second guess. I'm just trusting the 'all original' vibe I got at first now that I'm seeing bad splices and duct tape and goofy workarounds for soft wood.

Sorry if I am being somewhat redundant. I am gradually seeing how much nautical specific knowledge I'm lacking as I tinker around with mine. Maybe I'll ask what kind of oil is best next
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2018 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Boats are set up using automotive intake manifolds which are milled at 5* as previously stated. Auto engines are set in at about 5* and then the intake angle of -5* puts the carb back level. Boats as stated are set in at 15*. That puts a lot of angle on the carb base as you have seen on yours.   As others have said "personal preference"     I prefer mine level. Floats are then set up properly;. Your choice

edit   added pic
.

Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Most cars are set up with 5* of angle on intake manifold    Most boats are set up with 15* of angle.    Do the math. 10* angled spacer would be about right

Duane,
OK, I'm struggling with the math! How many degrees do you add for the pitch of the boat when it's underway?    Many of our hulls including yours run bow high. That no longer puts the carb level.


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