De-winterizing startup trouble

Thanks for quoting the entire post I almost missed it...

OptimaJim wrote: Hello, I've been reading quite a bit of conflicting information about our batteries and wanted to help clarify things. Any BlueTop battery made by Optima will have no trouble starting any engine that comes in a Nautique. We have four different BlueTops in three different sizes- 34M- Dark gray case, this is essentially the marine version of our RedTop starting battery D34M- Light gray case, this battery can be used in deep-cycle & starting applications D27M- Light gray case & larger than the Group 34s, this can be used in deep-cycle or starting applications D31M- Light gray case & larger than the 27, this can be used in deep-cycle or starting applications As you can tell from those descriptions, any Optima battery with a light gray case can be used for starting or deep-cycle use, which includes all of our YellowTop batteries. Internally, the YellowTops are identical to the BlueTops with the light gray cases. The only differences are the threaded terminals for marine & RV applications and the two-year warranty that comes on BlueTops vs three years on most YellowTops. Why the shorter warranty? Because guys like Pete store their boat without properly-maintaining their battery, allowing a partially-discharged battery to sulfate while in storage. When they decide to pull it out of storage, they hit what is probably a 50Ah battery with a 225-amp charge, potentially cooking the battery and shortening the lifespan. If our batteries fail because of something we did wrong in the way we built them, those issues will typically manifest themselves well within the first few months of use, if not the first few weeks. Beyond that, battery lifespan largely correlates to how a battery is used and maintained when not in use. That's pretty much the case for every manufacturer and brand. We'll take the hit for the warranty hit on BlueTops for the first two years and many of the "bad" batteries returned to us under warranty are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly-recharged. Beyond the first two years, handing out warranty batteries every Spring, because someone didn't properly-maintain their battery over the winter only makes the price go up for everyone. Other brands deal with the same issues and some of them will even void your warranty if you bring back a deeply-discharged battery, so be sure to read the fine print before making a purchase or seeking warranty service on some of those brands. If you deeply-discharge your battery listening to the stereo on a sandbar on a regular basis, it won't last as long as a battery that only gets used to start an engine. If you keep your battery fully-charged (~13.0-13.2V for BlueTops) whenever possible, it will probably last longer than if you put it into storage partially-discharged and don't think about charging it until several months later, when you want to bring it back out of storage. Even if you don't have access to electricity where you store your boat, if you just fully-charge and completely disconnect the battery and then top it off when you bring it out of storage and before you try to start your boat, you'll be in pretty good shape for a while. You may even save yourself some unwanted headaches. On my '97 Sport Nautique, the hour meter ran whenever the ignition button was turned on, even if the boat was just sitting in the dealership lot after getting serviced    Jim McIlvaine eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries

Yea, well even on a brand new battery for the season, If I left the boat for 3 weeks (actual 3 weeks), it wouldn't have the power to start. Say what you want, but that's crap in my book.
I charged the battery, disconnected the terminals at the end of last season. And it was still dead as a door knob this spring. No, I didn't bring it inside for the winter, but I live in Texas, not Canada.

Just went out today and got my 95 going. Sitting 7 months,last years fuel with marine stabilizer,primed the pumps turned off the key and did it again and then tried to start. Engine at the most turned over twice and was running. Love these FI motors. I'm using this Optima since '14,it and the one out of the Mustang bought in '13 do make the trip to Florida to run the Shamrock for it's season.When not being used it's on a maintainer. My only complaint is to watch the manufacturing date,the Mustangs was on the shelf at Advance for a year which I did not catch when I bought it. The Nautique one was from Farm and Fleet and was a month old.



Mustangs-

Jim, I understand Optima is now owned by JCI, Johnson Controls. I know this company and they supply batteries to many New Cars as they are built.
JCI is also ahead of the curve with the AGM technology in batteries.
JCI uses superior battery case technology holding the lead plates in place which should help in a Marine environment over time.
Has JCI changed the Optima brand?
Thanks
Mark

Well thanks Jim ... I feel somewhat vindicated. Although a few things have changed since I had 2 D31's and a Yellow top D34 in my big Chaparral, I didn't think that things had changed that much. BTW, I replaced the cheap dealer installed batteries with those Optimas mid-summer two years after I bought the boat. They were still going strong when I sold the boat 5 years later

You have to admit Pete the sound system you have in the Atom makes Quinners look like a 60's transistor radio

Hello, I've been reading quite a bit of conflicting information about our batteries and wanted to help clarify things. Any BlueTop battery made by Optima will have no trouble starting any engine that comes in a Nautique. We have four different BlueTops in three different sizes-

34M- Dark gray case, this is essentially the marine version of our RedTop starting battery
D34M- Light gray case, this battery can be used in deep-cycle & starting applications
D27M- Light gray case & larger than the Group 34s, this can be used in deep-cycle or starting applications
D31M- Light gray case & larger than the 27, this can be used in deep-cycle or starting applications

As you can tell from those descriptions, any Optima battery with a light gray case can be used for starting or deep-cycle use, which includes all of our YellowTop batteries. Internally, the YellowTops are identical to the BlueTops with the light gray cases. The only differences are the threaded terminals for marine & RV applications and the two-year warranty that comes on BlueTops vs three years on most YellowTops.

Why the shorter warranty? Because guys like Pete store their boat without properly-maintaining their battery, allowing a partially-discharged battery to sulfate while in storage. When they decide to pull it out of storage, they hit what is probably a 50Ah battery with a 225-amp charge, potentially cooking the battery and shortening the lifespan.

If our batteries fail because of something we did wrong in the way we built them, those issues will typically manifest themselves well within the first few months of use, if not the first few weeks. Beyond that, battery lifespan largely correlates to how a battery is used and maintained when not in use. That's pretty much the case for every manufacturer and brand. We'll take the hit for the warranty hit on BlueTops for the first two years and many of the "bad" batteries returned to us under warranty are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly-recharged. Beyond the first two years, handing out warranty batteries every Spring, because someone didn't properly-maintain their battery over the winter only makes the price go up for everyone. Other brands deal with the same issues and some of them will even void your warranty if you bring back a deeply-discharged battery, so be sure to read the fine print before making a purchase or seeking warranty service on some of those brands.

If you deeply-discharge your battery listening to the stereo on a sandbar on a regular basis, it won't last as long as a battery that only gets used to start an engine. If you keep your battery fully-charged (~13.0-13.2V for BlueTops) whenever possible, it will probably last longer than if you put it into storage partially-discharged and don't think about charging it until several months later, when you want to bring it back out of storage.

Even if you don't have access to electricity where you store your boat, if you just fully-charge and completely disconnect the battery and then top it off when you bring it out of storage and before you try to start your boat, you'll be in pretty good shape for a while. You may even save yourself some unwanted headaches. On my '97 Sport Nautique, the hour meter ran whenever the ignition button was turned on, even if the boat was just sitting in the dealership lot after getting serviced   

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries

Those threads are for a starter support bracket

After a cranking session, feel which positive and gnd connections and cables are uncharacteristically warmer than the others

Yes I heard some where the Optima battery's weren't as good as they used to be, hold on a minute that was on here, any way I have a Optima Blue top cranking battery in mine going on 6 years still doing good

Hollywood wrote: gt40KS wrote: Just FYI -- Optima BLUE top is not a dedicated deep cycle battery.   The blue tops are dual purpose Not necessarily true. gt40KS wrote: The Optima Yellow top batteries are the deep cycle only. Also not necessarily true.

OK, I stand corrected....   I don't currently have Optimas and its been a while since I looked at their options.   The blue top marine options used to be only available in dual purpose and the Yellows were only deep cycle. Now it seems they offer cranking also in blue and dual purpose in yellow as well as deep cycle.   Sorry for the mis-information.
I guess it is down to looking at your specific battery as the blue vs yellow doesn't mean what it used to

shouse wrote: The main ground lead is hooked up to the thick post, however the positive main lead is crimped onto a large eye-ring connector and thumb screwed down onto the threaded bolt terminal (along w/ a few other accessories).

Some prefer to use the post type termination of battery cables but, if done correctly a ring lug on a threaded stud is fine in my opinion. My 64 and my 54 have ring terminals and I have never had any problems. Take a good look at the ring lug and see if it was crimped to the cable properly with a crimping tool. Check for corrosion inside the crimp. Clean all the rings and the stud area of any corrosion and using some dielectric grease is always a good idea.

shouse wrote: Ok, i still don't understand this dirty neutral prop spin. As far as i'm aware, i can only start the boat when it's in locked-out neutral. I didn't touch the shifter after it's started, so assuming there is no possibility of it happening.

"Dirty neutral" is where the power transfers through to the output shaft slightly, even though the transmission is in neutral. Others can clarify since I don't know anything about transmissions, but from what I understand it is usually not an adjustable thing you'd actually have to have it repaired/ rebuilt.

.

I agree with this. . Perhaps a rusted Bendix gear (Starter) Could pull and inspect. However the dirty neutral prop spin is also a good call? Sounds great once its started!! Good luck.

Ok, i still don't understand this dirty neutral prop spin. As far as i'm aware, i can only start the boat when it's in locked-out neutral. I didn't touch the shifter after it's started, so assuming there is no possibility of it happening.

shouse wrote: I also don't like how the main leads are attached to the battery, but didn't have an issue w/ that last year so won't bring that into the equation. GT-40

What's the concern with the termination?

I heard the grind. Could be the teeth or bendix on starter. You could take the starter off & inspect the gears & also have it tested at a electrical shop. Be sure & disconnect battery 1st.

Another plan would be to ignore it for now & see if it gets worse. Then it will be obvious what the problem is.