Respirator 101 |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Posted: February-09-2010 at 6:27pm |
I have looked all over google and this site to find some answers about which respirator is best to use while grinding away the old glass to bed stringers to the hull. With so many different ratings and styles, brands, and accessories to choose from the bottom line question is difficult to find an answer to. Which filter is best for this application, and how many hours should I expect to get out of them? I already have a half face AO Safety brand respirator that I bought a while back for some drywall work.
My best guess right now is that either an N99 or N100 filter is the way to go. For anybody wanting to learn more I found wikipediato be the only place with any useful information. The directions in the filter package is very vague about how many hours to expect from the cartridges as the lifetime is affected by the environment you are working in. I will be doing all my grinding work outside. Thanks for the help and happy grinding! |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3358 |
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Consider this to really supress the dust, don't cut dry... use a cutting wheel on a pnumatic grinder, but zip-tie a water nozzle from your garden hose to the grinder to aim a water stream onto the wheel. You'll quickly get the feel how much water is required.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Not exactly the answer I was looking for but that is something to consider if you can accommodate that ie tools, location. I am talking about the inevitable hull grinding with 24 grit flap disks, to get down to the bare mat, dust producing mayhem. Are you saying you do all of that work with water running over the grinder and no PPE?
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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a full face respirator(used for retrieving the dead) I find the best, I let that thing clog until my face turns blue, the more they catch the better they filter, just like a screen door. mine sucks to the face and rarely as in your case the mask constantly falls or your always adjusting it and you still get glass in the eyes. I will wear a long sleeve shirt duct tape the sleeves to my wrists because when grinding it has a tendency to sneak up your sleeves
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Thanks Eric that answers one question! Use the filter till it is clogged.
Which rating cartridges do you use? I would definitely buy a full face if I was not on such a tight budget(have been looking everywhere for the steal of a deal). Going to have to settle for the equipment I already have for now. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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Guy's Please be advised that many rebuilders are using the electric grinders. I would advise against introduction of water in any way while using electric.
On the other hand if you are using air grinders this method may help keep the dust down, however I could forsee another created mess in cleaning up the slury projected off the disk. Dry cleanup is rather easy with a shop vac, however I found myself having to clean the filter many times as it blinds over quite easily prohibiting air flow and suction. Dennis |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Here is what I use Hobby Air to paint with and plan to get a full face mask when I go to do my stringers. You only get one pair of lungs---
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Um yeah that is sweeeeeeeeeeeeet but uhhhhh $462... I could think of some interesting uses for that thing! Hey man like where did my air go man, I'm hungry. Good example for those of you with unlimited resources.
I am just trying to get a consensus for best practices using a standard facemask, be it full or half face. I think most would agree full face is preferable for obvious reasons. I am looking for a simple answer. What level of filter needs to be used. But the "I wish toys are always cool too" |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Luckily, i do work for Serv-Pro and they donated 2 full face masks to me, there are nice because you can change the glass or plastic when they start to scratch, no problems at all with them
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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You must really have good health insurance.My Parents spent a little more than that when my Mom found out she had pulmonary fibrosis.Lets just say food is the last thing on your mind when you can't even breath, I'm not taking a chance,I've seen what happens. I paint Imron and Centari with hardner and that is what I really bought it for. |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Not trying to put down your method, and believe me I know all the dangers of working with glass which is why I started this thread. There is nothing funny about dying from cancer, emphysema, or fibrosis. I have witnessed them first hand myself too. I was attempting to make a joke about smoking a certain something through the machine that makes you hungry. If you don't get it you don't get it. You are lucky to already have this machine and will be very safe. If anything I envy you.
Again I can't afford a $462 machine but I can afford the best filters they make for my mask. I am STILL trying to get a consensus on what that is based on their ratings. The key is to get the right PPE for the right job. A spacesuit would work great too but again the price tag makes it unreasonable for MOST of us and Tyvek works real well. For such a simple question I am a little disappointed at the responses received so far. This does not need to be a 10 page thread. I was looking for a short sweet thread with the answer to a very important question. How to be safe without breaking the bank so others could benefit down the road. Which filter rating is appropriate for this application? |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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What you have is way more than adequate. Especially for outside work.
The IL Dept of Health says a dust mask is enough. Lowes sells a fancy dust mask they say is for fiberglass work, rated at N95 NioSH spec. I am not an OSHA expert, so this is purely opinion. I have a $30-40 niosh filtered mask that i use for all kinds of stuff. If I cannot smell the dust, it is fine. I used it for painting bilgekote, washing down with acteone, CPESing, as far as boat stuff. I have used it for indoor paint spraying, also. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Thanks Mike.
N95 is adequate, N99 and N100 are above the call of duty. I want to be as careful as I can so I will stick with the face mask and N99 or N100 filters. Other filters may be more appropriate for different applications like painting, gelcoating etc, as the R and P filters are oil resistant and oil proof respectively. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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Proper respirator:
Google MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet)for the products you are working with and it will give you all the information you need Type of respirator allowed exposure more information than you can think of. The think most important is the correct filter to collect the smallest particles you will be creating. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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oh the years I spent maskless, you know the ones, no seat belts, no air bags, kids in the front seat, spraying hundreds of gallons of Caterpillar white lead base paint, some day i will regret it. I wear that mask religously now
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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That is good information. Of course knowledge leads to more questions. There are a few different types of polyester resins. What am I dealing with grinding into a 1973 Correct Craft hull? I assume the glass matt and cloth will have their own specs as well. This information will help set an "acceptable best practice" for myself and the entire Correct Craft rebuilding community. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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Would using a shop vac hose near the cutting help with the dust?
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Tim D
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82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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Yes it is true - "Each product will have it's own MSDS Sheet"
I have sat in many work related classes concerning MSDS, OSHA, and safety. Ultimetly it is upto the person doing the work to first watch out for yourself. Even if you are doing the work for hire or pay and the responsibility is the person in charge above you to make sure you are safe. I built a small box of plywood and attached my shop vac hose to the box. While cutting or grinding I tried to direct the debris as such into the box. This did seem to help. |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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My opinion is do it outside, on a windy day, with a mask similar to Keegan's photo.
A shop vac does a little to help but you are moving so much and changing angles, i think it is hardly worth it. If you can do the bulk outside, and just little touch ups inside, that is best. This is why it took me an extra 3 weeks to get started on my boat. Had to wait for tolerable weather outside. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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Do it at night so the neighbors wake up in the morning thinking that Mt. St. Hellen's erupted again.
I had to move my cars and trucks out of my drive whenever I went outside to clean out my filters. By far this was the most undesireable part of my rebuild :) Dennis |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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By far! even digging old foam takes a distant second place to grinding.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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It was perfect grinding weather here today. Very windy and tolerable enough that all I needed was some old sweats under the tyvek to keep me warm. I would shop vac up the pile every few minutes to keep that from blowing all over the place.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Keegan, I understand where your coming from. I bought it for the Imron and now use it for alot of things.There isn't a filter made that will protect you from isocyanates other wise I'd have bought one. Like Eric, when I was younger,I didnt think about it.But as you get older your perspective changes.
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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It is always good to know the "good, better, and best" options. I would say you have the best. At least I am able to do the work in an extremely well ventilated area- outside!
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Your better off outside anyway,you'd be finding glass dust 20 years down the road if you were inside,you know Murphy's law
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3358 |
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You guys can't read for sh|t, I never said no ppe and clearly said pnuematic grinder.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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GottaSki;
How was the clean up using your method. Does it sling a slurry. Yes you did say pnuematic. However many of the guys currently rebuilding are using electric. I was just trying to help those rebuilders. Sorry !!! |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3358 |
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nobiggee!
I found it the way to go.. yes, there is some sling of course, but one quickly learns how to aim the tool to direct it smartly, its all caught by the hull, and the water supressed not only the airborn, but most the debris, it all rinsed out the bilge into a bucket for more careful disposal later. So much less rouge splinters around for the kid's or dog's feet to find forever. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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If you had read the opening this thread is ABOUT PPE So maybe you outta get YOUR glasses checked buddy. Not all areas of the hull drain to the bilge, so you are just going to fill all those areas with water? Sounds like a lot more trouble than its worth to me. Plus its freezing cold out there. Maybe you live somewhere warm with your head too far up your ass to read. Good for you. If you would like to contribute in a constructive manner to a thread I started about respirators then come on back. If you want to talk about grinding techniques START YOUR OWN THREAD! |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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