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Anyone with a duct-u-lator?

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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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    Posted: October-28-2007 at 8:04pm
Working on a project and my duct-u-lator is at work. Does anyone who is into HVAC or related have one handy? I need to know the CFM at .1 SP (residential) for 100' of a 3.25 x 14 duct. You would think with todays internet I could find it but can't!! I've googled without success. Lots of software for sale thought!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-28-2007 at 11:57pm
pete, My buddy says 145 cfm, and this is figured 3.00 x 14. he could not figure on the 3.25 but this is what he would use as a benchmark. this is roughly the same as 6.5 in. round.......
Hope this helped,he called at 8:30 and yes he was on a boat, catching Red Fish, and yes he limited out............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2007 at 6:56am
Much thanks for the help Doc. I'm at work and have my duck-u-lator in front of me now. Your friends figure is right on (I never doubted that it wouldn't be!) The 3 and a 1/4" is a standard duct width for a 2x4 wall so with the extra 1/4" of width, the duct-u-lator reads a extra 15 CFM at the same .1 SP.(it's now 160CFM) You had asked about the SP. It is actually static pressure in inches of water on a manometer for ducting that is used to measure the friction created. You're probably familiar with inches of vacuum for syncronizing multiple carbs. Same thing only bacerds!!
I'm trying to see if I can get the size duct I need down a wall without bumping it out into a duct chase. The next standard size of ducting is 8" width.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2007 at 3:30pm
Question for you HVAC guys. I need a new boiler for my house (baseboard heat). I am looking at Slant Fin boilers. What's the word on these? It's replacing a 40+ yo Peerless boiler and I thought that I wanted to replace it with a Peerless but now I don't know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2007 at 5:44pm
MM- I'm no HVAC expert, but my plumber friend likes buderus boilers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2007 at 7:05pm
any questions you guys have id be more than happy to help out..how i make my living..
mark- carrier performance 90 or other models..the 90 has the cast aluminium heat exchanger and is a 90 %..trane makes both a gas and oil boilers thats just as well imo also..as barracuda stated buderus is a good product also but can be more of a pain in the ass to install due to the programming...is there a reason why you want to stay with the boiler set-up? complete systems are cheaper going with forced air(if adding a/c).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2007 at 1:30pm
I have air ducts for the central air but will not go to forced air due to sinus issues and my wifes asthma which will not be helped with the dryness of forced air.

The Slant Fin was under consideration because it's what the plumbing supply house that I go to and is very friendly to DIYers carries.

I was thinking of installing it myself. Although I'm not sure how I'm going to get the monster peerless out and up the steps by myself.

I also need to replace the water heater and was thinking of getting the coil in the boiler instead. Would this work well? I don't want to run out of hot water.

The old boiler has a domestic coil in it but it then feeds in to the old electric water heater. Not sure why they ran it that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2007 at 2:41pm
You may want to look at this one too. It's what I'm going with and with the domestic hot water as well.

Weil-McLainŽ Ultra Condensing High Efficiency Gas Boiler


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2007 at 3:30pm
Carrier, Trane ?!?!? Ryan you are taking food out of the mouth of my children.. ok I don't have kids so its more like taking premium out of the gas tanks of my CorrectCrafts. I guess I can't complain too much because even though I work for the worlds second largest hvac company (Carrier is 1, Trane 3) we don't currenly sell residential boilers in the us.

What other HVAC industry lurkers do we have out there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2007 at 4:48pm
MM- We have a Weil McClain propane boiler and super store HW tank- The system has been very good to us since we've owned the house. From what I've been told the super store HW tanks are very efficient.
I'm with you on the hot water vs force air heat.
Rip out your radiators and retrofit some radiant under the floors We love the radiant heat!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2007 at 5:07pm
I have radient heat in my shop on the ceilings, man its efficient and it warms everything you touch up, it really is nice compared to forced air
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2007 at 10:12pm
well we know who has the deep pockets on here(barracuda)!! wirsbo is some pretty slick stuff and very easy to install...sorry joe, but imo those are the top two in the hvac industry..speaking of h20 tanks ..go instant hot!!!things kick ass
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2007 at 10:36pm
Originally posted by ryanandrews ryanandrews wrote:

wirsbo is some pretty slick stuff and very easy to install...

Runing all the tube was very time consuming but like you say, easy to install.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2007 at 8:27am
Be very carefull on the UNDER floor install. You will need to go through the btu losses of the house. You will only get a max of 30 btu's per sq. ft. The prefered method is ABOVE the sub floor (in floor). There are several IN floor retro fit methods as well as a floor system that replaces the sub flooring. The gypcrete (above floor) is now considered to have too much thermal "lag". IE: on hot to cold days/nights it takes too long to react. Even with the IN floor, supplemental fin tube in troughs may be required in front of large glass areas like sliding doors. The floor covering is also a major concern. All hydronic floor heating must have the floors insulated. Along with my Weil Mclein boiler, I plan on going with the Warmboard product which is the subfloor substitute.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2007 at 11:16pm
8122- im a lil confused on your post...never ever ever should sub floor heating(wirsbo etc)be used to try and heat your home as a sole or even an additional heat source.. its an ambient extra that will warm your floors..thats what its ..i have personally never seen anyone try and use it incorporated into their "home heating system"..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2007 at 6:41am
Ryan, It's done all the time. It just may not be popular in your part of the country. Do the calculations with 30 btu per sq. ft. as a base line. Figure in all your losses on all sides of the house. You do need a house that is insulated well.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2007 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by ryanandrews ryanandrews wrote:

8122- im a lil confused on your post...never ever ever should sub floor heating(wirsbo etc)be used to try and heat your home as a sole or even an additional heat source.. its an ambient extra that will warm your floors..thats what its ..i have personally never seen anyone try and use it incorporated into their "home heating system"..


Works fine for us as the primary heat.
My plumber buddy uses it as primary heat for his entire home and installs it for many others too.
You're right- you need to calculate your heat needs- the professionals will size it for you and tell you if you need any supplemental runtal to cover large rooms, high ceilings, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2007 at 2:26pm
Ryan, Run the load calculations using a R50 for the ceiling, a R19 for the walls, a R21 under the floor and a R2 for windows/doors. (The R2 is about average for a double glazed window). Use a delta T of 90 degrees and see what you get.
The R factors are currently about what the DOE is recommending.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2007 at 2:39pm
Gas forced is a cheaper option,but that only depends on how much you want to spend.Depending on the new seer ratings on all these new units your better off changing everything.Especially since you can't use the old a-coils with these new condensing units.If you went gas force there are so many different filtering systems out there for people with asthma and allergies.Its woth a look at least.If you are going to stay at that house for a long period of time,you may think of going geothermal.Its alot up front in terms of money,but you will recover your money pretty quick.It also depends on where you live.You could also do heat pump with a second stage gas heat and a electric backup for emergency heat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2007 at 3:31pm
[QUOTE=bmiller] If you are going to stay at that house for a long period of time,you may think of going geothermal.Its alot up front in terms of money,but you will recover your money pretty quick.It also depends on where you live.[QUOTE]

Now we have someone talking sense, fossils are only going to be getting more expensive. The future is coming. If I was building a new house I would be drilling geothermal wells. If I was planning a new development I would install community wells/ponds..

Love in floor radiant heat btw, especially for a garage, built my brother in law a woodstove boiler and an in floor system for his workshop and it is awesome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2007 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by bmiller bmiller wrote:

Gas forced is a cheaper option,but that only depends on how much you want to spend.Depending on the new seer ratings on all these new units your better off changing everything.Especially since you can't use the old a-coils with these new condensing units.If you went gas force there are so many different filtering systems out there for people with asthma and allergies.Its woth a look at least.If you are going to stay at that house for a long period of time,you may think of going geothermal.Its alot up front in terms of money,but you will recover your money pretty quick.It also depends on where you live.You could also do heat pump with a second stage gas heat and a electric backup for emergency heat.


Now I know how jbear feels in the engine threads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2007 at 6:58pm
Hollywood, it took me a minute but i busted out laughing, I havn't laughed that hard in a while.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2007 at 7:05pm
Its to bad they couldnt pipe the water from the cooling towers from the nuke plants, we would jet-ski by the water outlets where it bubbled about 500 yards out in the lake and that water was hot, there would be enough BTU's in the water to heat a community, plus it is free heat, whats a little radiation poisening, were talking about millions of gallons of hot water, no fossil fuels being burned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2007 at 7:53pm
Guys, Thanks for the input as it is appreciated.
I've had a few years to do a lot of research plus I do have a friend in HVAC so I really feel I'm making a sound decision. I'm going with in floor. This is on my little lake house in northern Wisconsin that will be getting a total remodel and major add on for my retirement house. I do not need AC as there typically are only 2 or 3 days a summer when its needed. The evenness and the comfort of in floor is the major factor. Without the need for ductwork and the use of Warmboard (the sub floor replacement) in floor really isn't that costly. The big item is the condensing boiler and the second are the pumps/flow zone controls. I did look into geothermal with the hydronic but with our cooler climate, plus all the trees my only option was some fairly deep extraction and injection wells. 3 years ago I went through getting a new water well and at $6000 did not want to add 2 more.(we also have some rather strict regs on process water well location to potable water wells) I love the idea but do not want to get into a overly complicated system in the north woods with the only repairman who understands it is 150 miles away!!

HW, don't come down on Jbear too much. He does do his own oil changes so that's a lot better than some!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2007 at 9:36am
remember the guy who changed his 4 spark plugs and didnt know there were 4 more on the other side
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2007 at 11:11am
Pete, I was only teasing the man. He's actually quite the gearhead nowadays. We couldn't get him in a foot line or shot ski line at the P.P. until he had that '80 running "just right".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2007 at 11:13am
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

remember the guy who changed his 4 spark plugs and didnt know there were 4 more on the other side


I still tell it to people and even some women find it hard to believe. Well, I think as it turned out, he and his brother went and got a friend who was more mecanically inclined. Don't forget that he first bought 4 plugs for a 350 GM and found out it was the 351!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2007 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Pete, I was only teasing the man. He's actually quite the gearhead nowadays. We couldn't get him in a foot line or shot ski line at the P.P. until he had that '80 running "just right".


HW, I don't see any tools in his hands in the picture. Is this a new technique of starring at the engine and wishing it runs better?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2007 at 11:49am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

HW, I don't see any tools in his hands in the picture. Is this a new technique of starring at the engine and wishing it runs better?

I think it is Pete. JBear must have learned that trick from HW.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2007 at 12:59pm
it really looks like he's painting his toe nails in the picture, probably to match those Bermuda's
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