Boat on its last leg to the UK |
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uk1979 ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1416 |
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Just got a call the boat will be delivered on Thurs, which is great but it looks like d*ck Turpin is still alive and well, have to pay an extra charge for rent on container and storage at the port for 4 days, the fact they shut the port for snow for 4 days cuts no ice,pay up or we charge by the day till it is and must have $200.00 by tomorrow to release for Thurs. It just shows how rubbish the UK is I pay because it snows.
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56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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Gary S ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Once again Billy supplies a new tag line- There you go Quinner,this ones for you ![]() |
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boat dr ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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They are closer than you think Bruce.Intercepter was very weight and size savy in those early years.They were casting 95 percent of thear stuff, for both reasons. Size and weight were a selling features to the boat builders, while HP and top speed sold the consumer. The engineering dept. was at the top of thear game with the newer style "square exhaust" not only are they lighter and less complicated to cast, they reduced enine width by 1 full inch. One inch is not much unless it is inside a boat........The same goes for weight, look at all the aluminum cast parts that were used. This adds major dollars to the introduction of a marinized engine. I think little is stock on your Y block, even if it is a Intercepter, it matters little. Use the boat and enjoy the Y Block rumble..... |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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It's ok Pete. You probably knew that at one time. I have no idea if that is an original set up on our boat or if the engine is even original to the boat. The records for our boat went up in the fire. When I pull the manifold next spring and take a good look at it, it will be easier to tell if it's an Interceptor or not. If it's aluminum, it may well be, if cast iron probably some other marinizer. As far as CFMs go, whatever makes the engine run good. They aren't race engines. |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bruce, ![]() ![]() |
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boat dr ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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I did a little number crunching at another CFM site. Below are the results I came up with.
A 312 turning 4500 with a 80 percect VE will need 450 to 553 CFM.These seem to agree with the 250 CFM minimum I think these carbs are able to flow. My view is that any carb rated above 600 CFM would be over kill on this motor only spinning to red line. The 292 spinning 5000 rpm, will flow about the same.This being said, I see no additional HP can be gained by basterdizing an already tried and proven induction method.......I will keep mine as it came from CorrectCraft in 1956/1957......Boat dr |
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uk1979 ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1416 |
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Thanks Joe, looks like its still up in the air for CFM on YH Carter
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56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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JoeinNY ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5697 |
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Those cfm ratings are just something hobbists use (abuse) anyhow.. The cfm through a venturi is meaningless without knowing the vacuum driving it (ie. the pressure differential or delta of pressure (dp). I can get 750 cfm through one of those single barrel carters with enough dp. Two barrels have their cfm arbitrarily rated at 3.0 inches of vacuum and 4 barrels at 1.5 inches vacuum... no idea what you would rate a single barrel at but if you use bore size as a rough estimate for cfm through a venturi at a specific dp then you might have already gone wrong by an order of magnitude if you were comparing a 4 to a 2. The intake runner setup is also a huge factor here if all barrels are assumed the same size the two one barrels or one two barrel on an open intake would behave very similarly to a 4 barrel on a dual plan manifold with a divider in place.
Anyway I got a meeting to go to here so this is a trivial response to complicated subject but dont anyone believe those 1xx cfm numbers mean a damn thing.. |
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uk1979 ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1416 |
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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81nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5777 |
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Thanks Roger I was just on carbdocter and found the same thread.
128/256...sounds like we're talking computers about 20 years ago. |
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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uk1979 ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1416 |
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Alan, This was posted on here by 64x55
Okay, here we go � This reply will be really messy and disconnected (sorry) but has some good info. on the YH carbs and a possible CFM number we were discussing above: Carb Doctor web site's email = doc@carburetor.ca <doc@carburetor.ca> I e-mailed this guy with the question: How many CFM for the Carter YH? Hopefully he'll pass some info. back my way. Carb Doc Phone # : 780-968-6622 Nice diagram with lots of data from a 1952 to 1955 Nash car (Ambassador) that used YH carbs at this site: http://oldcarmanualproject.com/manuals/Carbs/Carter/Nash/pages/p_%2040_jpg.htm Old Corvette web site � 6 cyl. Used the YH Carter carb: http://www.carburetor.ca/pdf_manuals/Carter/YHmanuals1.pdf or: http://www.tocmp.com/manuals/Carbs/Carter/YH/index.htm (same thing � "non pdf" � i.e. just click on a page to view) Corvairs used them too... Here's a site (Black Hawk Engineering) that seems to indicate that the YH's original CFM was 128 (CFM) if I'm reading correctly: http://www.blackhawkengr.com/ Quote from site: "The throttle body has a 1.83" bore to fit the F flow (180 HP) turbocharger inlet bore. The Performance Trends "Engine Analyzer" simulation software predicts that the throttle body will flow 256 CFM versus 128 CFM for the original "180 HP" YH carburetor. With the boost limited to 12 PSI for longevity, Engine Analyzer predicts 193 HP net versus the 148 net HP of the stock "180 HP" system. The EFI system is able to produce better fuel economy despite generating more power. I will also manufacture smaller throttle bodies for the B-flow (150 HP) turbochargers." If 128CFM is correct, I guess that means "two" would do only 256CFM? Another link to the same info. (same site). It's a fuel injection throttle body for turbosharged Corvairs that also used the YH carbs (Wow! Pretty interesting stuff!): http://www.blackhawkengr.com/Black%20Hawk%20Engineering%20-%20Bolt%20On%20Turbo%20Fuel%20Injection.htm Ooo! Another site that says 128CFM --- "4 each Carter YH (sidedraft) carbs from a 6-cylinder Corvette bolt to the triangular flanges.......I think that Turbo Corvairs and some Nashes also used these carbs. I wonder how well it ran with that setup? You'd think it would be better with a divider in the runners...?The carbs I think are 128 CFM each X 4 = 512 CFM. You are right, sounds kind of undercarbed for a 331. At 4800 RPM it should use 542 CFM (if my math is right)." Site Link:http://caddy500.com/index.php?topic=336.25;wap2 And here's a cool site that shows what CFM you should have based on the c.i. vs the max RPM's expected (recommended): http://www.buicks.net/shop/reference/carb_cfm.htm This stie also has a nifty "enter your RPM's and C.I.'s and get your needed CFM for a carb" chart! Or an equation to do it by hand. And another similar site: http://slitherclothing.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/how-to-calculate-correct-carb-size/ In each case, it looks like, if you use the 312 Interceptor as an example, it yields a CFM a good bit higher than what 128CFM x 2 would be (256CFM), assuming the two sites referenced above are right about only 128 CFM for the Carter YH side drafts. Man, this is almost as much fun as playing with Propeller Calculators, but I'm whipped from staring at the computer screen to long! I think my eye sockets are gonna need some PB Blaster soon if I don't stop now! Inboards Rule! Link to thread |
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56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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81nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5777 |
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Pete/Billy, What are the cfm ratings on the YH's? |
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Bruce, I would question that 260/289 Intercepter side draft. I have never seen nor heard of such a set up. Would you please share pics or other proof this was an option.352/390 I would say YES but not the 260...............Billy
I thought we were talking about side draft set ups in general, not specifically singles or duals, but ok. I guess it depends on what you mean by side draft. ![]() |
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boat dr ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Bruce, I am not taking sides here, but you need to put your glasses on as well. My reasoning on the dual side drafts 260/289 were to large to fit inside the engine vally. The pics show a single carb
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Pete, put your glasses on. Look at the valve covers, location of the oil filter and the thermostat housing. And the dizzy! It's a 260. In the same manual it also shows a picture of an FE block with side drafts. |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bruce, This picture Tim posted is a Y block. I too have never heard of or seen side drafts on any engines except the Y blocks and Gray's 327 AMC engines. |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21145 |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Page iv of the yellow Interceptor manual. I'd post a pic, but can't figure out how to. I'd say the side drafts on the 260-289 and the 352/390 are about as rare as the down drafts on the Y blocks. Anyway.... Roger, sorry, I did not mean to cause a threadjack. Post some pics when you get her! |
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boat dr ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Bruce, I would question that 260/289 Intercepter side draft. I have never seen nor heard of such a set up. Would you please share pics or other proof this was an option.352/390 I would say YES but not the 260...............Billy
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Man, you guys are sensitive! I didn't say anything about problems or performance with side drafts. I merely said they eventually upgraded to down drafts. Pete, are you saying that set up of mine came off a Ford? Which model had raw water cooling? If you look in the CC brochures, there are a number of boats with raised engne boxes to allow for a downdraft. The 260/289 and 352/390 engines were also available with side drafts, not just the Y blocks. One thing I've learned about old Correct Crafts is to never use "always" and "never", but I don't claim to be an expert.
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bruce,
I feel you are very mistaken with the Y block and a downdraft. In a marinized version, it always had the YH's. Yes, CC changed the dog houses but that was for the 289 series of Interceptors. Billy is absolutely correct that the problem with the side drafts is not the carb but the people who don't know how they work and shouldn't be fiddling with them. He's also correct that there isn't any performance gain with the 4bbl. I think you'd be surprised with the CFM rating on the YH's!!! |
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boat dr ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Bruce, the Intercepter was offered both ways. I may be wrong but I do not think CC used any down drafts in their boats. This set up was available from 1956 thru 1964 for sure, maybe a little later as NOS was depleted. HM 260 ci was available for the first time , that made the Y block obsolete over nite.
The valve covers were for pics only. OEM covers with new decals will finish this classic.All parts will be period correct, including ignition and induction..........I would have never caught the covers being incorrect, thanks for keeping me on the staight and narrow Bruce. |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Billy, they're both good, but you were talking about "changes made in those days to upgrade and sell the newest motors available to the boating public.........." and they did end up with down drafts. The brochures do show how CC modified their boxes for them. As far as the Weber thing, mine will be replaced with a goldish one next year, but I probably won't change brands because it runs so good with it. I guess you got a pencil neck funnel for your oil, good idea, but you may want to flip those valve covers over before you tighten them down.
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boat dr ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Bruce, I would rather have two YH Carters than one of those Weber things you have .Most people cannot make the Carters run properly, this is not a problem with the carbs. The problem is with the people that that fiddle with them.
I would prefer to have an intake that allows a smaller shorter motor box. These you lose with the down draft. As far as the Carters being "less than" that is a personal choice. I do not think there is a lot of HP to be gained with the 4bbl vs the twin Carter set up. The added plus is they look old school,and Pete approves of mine, what about yours? As far as adding oil, pour it thru the dipstick hole....... |
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uk1979 ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1416 |
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Nice Looking engine there Bruce. ![]() |
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Billy, how do you add oil to that?
Nice looking engines. Eventually they upgraded them to down draft carbs. ![]() |
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uk1979 ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1416 |
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Thanks Jeff, and congratulations on your 2 new boats you have added to your fleet ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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uk1979 ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1416 |
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Here you go Billy, Your 2 Boys, My One ![]() Billy's Next Y Block ![]() My One ![]() Billy's Next Y Block ![]() My One ![]() Billy's Next Y Block ![]() |
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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connorssons ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: January-17-2009 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 1414 |
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Very cool boat! remember seeing it for sale, way out of my league to fix. that boat has more class then glass
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boat dr ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Roger, can you post a pic of my motor below yours. There was a few changes made in those days to upgrade and sell the newest motors available to the boating public..........Billy
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