1985 2001 with 454 - dead |
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Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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So now I'm curious, could they have done any damage to my transmission by running it backwards for an unknown amount of time?
I'm not in the business of trying to screw anyone over, but if it's possible that it sustained damage, I would like to have it rebuilt... Since it was just rebuilt last year. |
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'85 2001 454
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Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Yeah man! You too! I'll get back on the water soon! Hope y'all are enjoying your summer! |
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'85 2001 454
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baitkiller
Platinum Member Joined: October-11-2011 Location: SW Florida Status: Offline Points: 1693 |
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Whatevs..
Good luck Ian, have a great summer, glad everything worked out! |
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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For some reason I couldn't load this page, so I wasn't able to see everyone's comments before I posted the story.
Tommy's is a big name around here - but mistakes happen, no problem. When I say "professional" I mean that it wasn't just some shade tree mechanic, but an established shop. The mechanic said it would be quicker and easier to clock the pump and put at LH prop on. But I immediately said I would like to keep my boat the way it was built, and the mechanic was quick to agree and say that he was just letting me know some options. Yep, dirty neutral doesn't really concern me. Before the engine failure, neutral in the water left the boat completely still. Tomorrow morning Tommy's is going to call the engine supplier and have a chat to see who made the mistake, and who gets to eat the cost... So I should know more tomorrow morning. My expectation is that I will be excluded from the drama between the supplier and the shop, and they will re order the correct engine, and put my boat as a priority, and get me finished ASAP. |
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'85 2001 454
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11045 |
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Well at least you won't have to worry about the transmission.
You can live with a mild dirty neutral for a long time. As the fluid heats up to normal temperature it tends to get "less dirty" for lack of better words. Don't mind Pete, he's a professional toober and Tommy's wouldn't sponsor him a few years ago |
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Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Honestly, I didn't do a lot of research. Tommy's is really close to me, and I called them when I first blew the motor to ask some questions, and the guy on the phone sounded knowledgable and friendly. Besides, mistakes happen. It's not a huge deal. I'm not mad. |
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'85 2001 454
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Ian,
Why Tommy's and not: Action Watersports Colorado www.awsboatsco.com 4404 E 60th Ave Commerce City, CO 80022 |
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Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Here's a funny story.....
I went back to the shop, and verified that the prop spins clockwise, and climbed in the boat and looked at the distributor........ WRONG ENGINE, it's a standard rotation engine. So I go inside to talk to the service rep and the mechanic, I tell them my concern, and they are adamant that it is the correct engine - the one I ordered. I explained that I specifically ordered a reverse rotation engine, and they didn't agree. I opened up my phone and found an email from April 27, that I sent to them so that they could order my new engine, and attached to the email was the picture of my original engine identification placard. Where it clearly shows R. Either way, someone else gets to eat the cost of this mistake, and I don't have to buy another new engine, and labor for the install. So, I find it funny, because I was really stressed today as the transmission fiasco was gonna put me over budget, but now I can laugh a little, and wait for them to fix the mistake and get me a new engine - the right one this time - and get me back on the water. You guys are amazing! Thanks so much for all the help! I would not have been able to figure this out without yall's help! |
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'85 2001 454
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Ian, I agree with Gary, DO NOT accept a LH prop. After seeing Tommy's web site, I'm getting real concerned.
Professional in what? Looks like the complete staff including the "techs"are just into skurfer boards, boarding, tubing, surfing and skiing?? Just as John mentioned, I doubt their "techs" would know what a RR engine was!! |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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No way,no how would I accept this as an answer. It would be like giving you a mirror if they flopped the ring gear on a differential repair |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11045 |
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On Chevy's it'll rotate clockwise no matter which direction the engine rotates, except for some pretty rare offshore race engines that cost way more than anything we'd be dealing with here. You'll find your distributor rotating clockwise, so that's not a good indicator of rotation.of the engine. |
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baitkiller
Platinum Member Joined: October-11-2011 Location: SW Florida Status: Offline Points: 1693 |
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Worse case if they put the wrong engine in is they owe you a prop. Clock the pump, put on a L prop and go skiing. You don't have a bunch of time to waste this summer.
And as far a inboards go, in Denver its pretty much Tommys sand box. They have a good rep well earned. However....... People make boo boos and a young "tech" who wasn't even a wet spot in mommies panties when reverse rotation engines were the norm may not have the slightest clue. That would explain the "transmission doesn't work and I have no idea why" communication. Go see if there is a (mechanic) running around there that looks like me. Old and pissed off. That's the guy you want. |
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Which way does the distributor turn on a reverse rotation engine?
Or do all distributors spin the same way? |
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'85 2001 454
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I wonder too if you can get a look at the paperwork they have from the engine supplier,maybe that will give some info on rotation.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11045 |
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You can just casually ask if they put a new starter on it too or if it's the same one the previous engine had
That'll be a good piece of info.for ya' Same rotation would use same starter. Opposite rotation takes a different rotation starter |
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Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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It has felt this way since right after I paid the deposit and had them order the engine. |
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'85 2001 454
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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If the new engine rotates the opposite and they didn't index the trans pump to the new rotation, then the pump will not pump fluid and develop any pressure to operate the forward and reverse clutch packs. I'm getting the feeling that Tommy doesn't know what he's doing!! |
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Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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haha As soon as I get out of work I'll head over there and take a pic of the prop. The old engine was reverse rotation. |
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'85 2001 454
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Here's the cylinder numbering for the 454: Starting with #1, trace the plug wires from the distributor to the cylinders clockwise |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11045 |
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Look at your distributor cap, find #1 plug wire and going CLOCKWISE around the cap follow the wires.
It'll be either 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2 normal automotive or 1 2 7 5 6 3 4 8 reverserotation We'll worry about this part along with a picture of the prop first Edit You can compare your tag to the firing order you physically have from following the wires around the cap And use Pete's diagram for cylinder numbering |
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Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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How does the firing order (provided both engines have correct rotation) effect the transmission? I'm not totally sure I understand how that functions?
Also will the engine tag be correct on firing order? |
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'85 2001 454
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Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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How do I determine actual firing order if I didn't build it? I have the engine tag from the original with the firing order printed on it. |
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'85 2001 454
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Is there a way to know if it's reverse rotation (like it should be) from just looking at it?
So when I go check on it this afternoon, I'd like to be able to make sure they didn't screw this up |
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'85 2001 454
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Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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It's at Tommy's of Colorado. A professional shop. They ordered the engine and did all the work.
I'll go see it this afternoon and try to figure out what's up with it. |
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'85 2001 454
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11045 |
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Sounds to me like you put in a new engine that rotates backwards from the original.
And your transmission has a slight dirty neutral and isn't indexed for the same rotation as the engine, so no forward or reverse and in this case spinning backwards your dirty neutral makes the shaft spin slowly in reverse. Are you using the same starter or did you get a new one to go with the new engine ? What's your firing order? What was the old firing order? Take a picture of the propeller Knowing the actual firing order (not necessarily what's cast into the intake manifold)and the prop rotation will tell a lot about what your issue may or may not be. |
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Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Ok, new motor is in (I'm told it runs, shop called and said so), but now they say the transmission doesn't work. They said at idle in neutral the prop slowly turns backwards, but with no torque, can stop it by hand, but in forward or reverse nothing happens.
Trans was rebuilt last year. What the hell? It's a 72c. I'm gonna take it home from the shop and not let them touch it anymore, I guess I gotta pull the trans and rebuild it again. |
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'85 2001 454
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11045 |
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Sure, and Autolite numbers are easier to remember too.
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Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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as long as you're not screaming "DON'T USE THOSE PLUGS", then I think I'll be ok |
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'85 2001 454
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11045 |
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I've heard some people like Ginger, some like Mary Ann and some like Gilligan
Same thing with spark plugs as oil, oil filters etc..........everybody has a favorite |
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