1985 2001 with 454 - dead |
Post Reply | Page <1 4567> |
Author | ||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Bought new plugs this morning. The parts store didn't have champion, so I ended up with Autolite. I've heard the AC Delco ones just don't make the 454 very happy.
|
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I have run Champion for years with no issues.
If this engine still has a flat tappet camshaft, ( not a roller can engine ) make sure to follow the start up procedure to break in the new cam. As soon as possible on start up it needs to be brought up to 1,500 to 2,300 RPM and kept above 1,500 for the first 20 minutes of run time. Failure to do this results in camshaft failure. Some engine suppliers will run the engine to do this before selling the engine. Most do not. A high quality oil is also necessary. The Diesel oils available from Delo and Rotella are cheap but have the right ZDDP to help with your break in. On start up quickly check for oil and coolant leaks and get it spinning above 1,500 RPM. Verify your timing is really close to proper setting. Plan ahead make sure you have a way to keep it cool in this break in period. The goal here is to get the lifters spinning as the engine is running. Once the lifters break into your camshaft it is good for life normally. Enjoy your new toy, I hope it has lots of power. |
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yeah, the new engine also has the oval ports.
We made sure to check casting numbers on block and heads before we ordered it. New engine is in, will be back on the water tomorrow! Any sparkplug recommendations? The ones in the old engine were Champion RV8C |
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
StuW
Newbie Joined: January-18-2018 Location: Oswego IL Status: Offline Points: 31 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Looks like factory big oval port heads? Do you know if your new motor will have those too? |
||
1982 Barefoot Nautique
PCM 454 |
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Well the shop around here screwed up and took 3 damn weeks to order the engine after I paid them for it.....
But new engine is here now, and boat is in the shop. About to have a new powerplant! |
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I just moved the boat from sea level to 6k feet.. so if anything it should be running rich.. But the longer I think about this, the more I question if I checked the oil before I ran it.. Either way, the engine is shot, and a new one is on order! |
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
You should get at least a partial credit. The heads should be good.
They will keep most of the $500 core credit but in reality you are giving them back one messed up engine. In the failure you have most often a rod bearing has gone out and locks that rod to the crankshaft, since it can no longer rotate the power of the other 7 cylinders pushing it snaps the bad rod and the remaining part swings around at engine speed hits the camshaft and punches holes in the cylinder wall. A huge amount of damage done very quickly. I have also seen similar damage when a piston pin locks in the piston. Same issue the rod can no longer rotate so it snaps and the damage starts. Piston pin lock is usually caused by abnormal cylinder temps. Lean burn or timing. The rod bearing failure is most often oil starvation which is usually seen at the rod farthest from the oil pump, #1 rod. |
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
She's in pre-op now. Surgery will happen next week. She's getting a new heart!
|
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Thanks man! I think it's a pretty nice boat, and new engine will make it that much nicer! |
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yeah, #4 rod snapped. $500 core charge, I don't know for sure if this will qualify for core return.. I haven't pulled the bottom end yet, but with all of the coolant in the oil pan it likely has too much damage. |
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
If my eyes are seeing your picture well it looks like a visible broken camshaft?
If the cam is broke you have bigger problems underneath. Usually a broken rod comes around and breaks the camshaft like that. If the crankshaft took an impact shock from the broken rod the odds are it will have cracks also. Good thing you ordered a new engine. With big damage the old engine may not qualify for a full core credit if your new motor was purchased with an exchange agreement. |
||
shierh
Gold Member Joined: April-29-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 605 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Friend always says "nothing in moderation" your engine goes along with this. If you are going to break it then blow it apart.
Good news is that you get a new engine in what appears to be a pretty nice boat. |
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
So weird to me. I've never seen a camshaft blow up like that! |
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 946 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Wow, don't think I've ever seen that before. Sure explains it all. |
||
JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
||
gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 946 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Deja Vu .... Been there myself, very recently! My machine shop was 6 weeks backlogged but is finally caught up to my build and is working on it now. They should be done sometime next week! |
||
JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Also, found the problem
|
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
New engine on order from Michigan Motorz.
|
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Ian, Flushing connections such as the infamous CCfan "Timmy T" designed by Tim, are an add on. |
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
It's possible that raw water cooled engines have an internal connection too, but I've never owned a raw water cooled boat before. |
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yeah. There is a flushing access port in the boat. it gives access to the cooling system, and then able to flush out the thru hull water pick up, (when not running). |
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
In effort to simplify my inquiry, Tim it appears I mistakenly validated the term barefoot special, perpetuating the rural legend. ugh I can only add that three 2001 boats with the HO I've had seat at ski (feet) time in, one an '83, one and 84, and one an 85, each had the tall pylon from the BF, so it caught my eye. Upon talking to an original buyer, one had to have some street cred for them to build one, a history of supporting the sport responsibly, and buyers understanding the usage and limitations. as it appears they knew it was a ride too wild for general availability. and resultant monkeyshines in all but the better conditions. |
||
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Somethings not adding up. Both fresh water cooling (closed cooling) and raw water (sea water) cooling have thru hull water pick ups in the bottom of their hulls. Do you have a flushing connection on the suction side of the RWP? |
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
It's 2 minutes at 140*F. So they hook up a fake-a-lake, or whatever adapter works for your boat, then flush until the temp of the water exiting the exhaust is a minimum of 140*F then they flush for 2 minutes, then it's done. Same for ballast, anchor, etc.. The fresh water cooling means they don't have to climb under the boat and try to put the plunger onto the intake... They can just reach over the side, flush out the intake and then the engine - all thru the fresh water strainer. I don't know if sea water cooled boats also have that, as my previous X-star, X-2, and X-9 all had closed loop cooling. |
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yep, I've already gotten over the cost of a new motor. Now I'm on to the excitement of having a new engine! |
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Ian, I know many states are going all out with the cleaning process to go after the invasives. Wisconsin has only gotten to the point of using pressure washers for the externals but no internal flushing yet. Hopefully they will get to that point. I'm curious on the process. How do they do it? Where do they make connections and how does fresh water cooling make it easier? "ear muffs" and fake-a-lakes? |
||
gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 946 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Sorry to hear the bad news Ian, but I had figured as much when you said in your opening paragraph that you heard an 'awful noise'. In my experience that is never a quick, easy or inexpensive fix.
On the bright side, now you can chose new power, get it set up the way you want it with as much power as you want and know that she'll have a very long life thereafter ( I know of what I speak ) |
||
JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
True. I don't know the extent of the internal damage, but it appears to be beyond rebuildable. |
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
Ian
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2018 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
#4 piston destroyed #4 cylinder, piston rings jammed into the walls and head... Connecting assumed broken - I can hear it flopping around when I turn it over. Unknown damage to rotating assembly, that's just what I found in the R bank... haven't checked L side yet. But it's enough to know it's DOA. Gonna order a new one, with electric ignition, and all the new fancy toys I guess.. |
||
'85 2001 454
|
||
MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The Spark plug looks like an impact hit. Is there a fractured cylinder in the block?
Rod out the side of the block? It may be able to be repaired even if you need to put a sleeve in one cylinder, a sleeve is a 100% repair if done by a quality shop. |
||
Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Try Jim at 207-252-099 six. I believe he has a RH 454 that came from a PCM. |
||
Post Reply | Page <1 4567> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |