Problem with Comp Cams

Yes I do, I am out of town right now, E mail me at wburg69@yahoo.com I am at a computer every day.
Bill B

It's an Interceptor, ReidP.

Jim, Good deal. I'm sure Jeff gave you a little crap about the "those backwards engines" as he always does me. Did you ever say which 289 Ford you had, whether it was a H-M or an Interceptor?


64 Skier: Regarding Holman Moody, and since I'm in the Charlotte, NC area and have a HM engine, I naturally went to them first, hoping to get something I could call a factory upgrade cam. I've spoken to Jimmy Tucker also; what a wealth of info- and to Larry Wallace who grinds the cams. Unfortunately though, and from time to time it bites us all, he said he couldn't get the reverse rotation cam blanks/billets anymore.    

I think H&M still grind cams. They still list in the Ford Racing Parts Magazine. As I recall the guy's name is Jimmy Tucker and he was around when Parnelli and guy's like him became famous with H&M engines. He also told me he was there when they put an H&M engine in a CC and tested it. He told me the "car" engine torque's force was the same direction as the Driver's weight and the boat planed at an angle. Back then the boats were smaller and narrow across the beam so a car engines rotation was definitely a "deal breaker".

Great guy, you should give him a call and talk about the cam grind. He helped me a lot during my re-build.

Jim,
I hope you and everyone else in the Correct Craft owners and fan family have had an incredible holiday season thus far. Our Christmas was great. However, bad news on the cam I gave you the specs for, as it relates to the firing order. It's also a 351 firing order cam unfortunately. And for that matter, almost every 302 4V marine engine after 1970 or so, shared the 351 firing order as a result of Ford universalizing (is that a word?) the parts bins. Many out there with 215-225 HP 302 Fords may have noticed that their engines have 351 heads to go along with the 351 camshaft. If you're not sure, just pop off a valve cover and you'll see the 351 stamp. This was a factory assembly for the marine based 302 4V engines. So do you have a Holman Moody engine, as I know mine have the embossed plates on the chrome valve cover but my 302's have the 351 firing order? My Interceptor 302 just had a decal on the valve cover which I've easily reproduced when I replaced the cam. I believe I have an extra set of HM valve covers with the 351 F.O. plate on them which I could pop off and send to you if you wish. Otherwise, you may be looking at a custom ground $$ cam to keep that firing order. Let me know if we can help you in any way.

The production of opposite cams are getting very scarce. The problem is not grinding but there is no one any longer casting the blanks .
Since PCM built the 123 transmison opposite rotation engines are no longer necessary in CC boats. They can change the shaft rotation in the tranny.
The issue of dual vs single pattern cams has always been a personal call. However torque is more important in tow boats unless you are turning over 5250 RPM., torque goes away while HP climbs, depending on the torque range of the cam. Bigger is not always better.

Reid,
If you don't mind,
what is your top RPM, your prop size, and what type of carb are you running? Where did you buy your SpeedPro cam? That cam you purchased appears to be still available. Did you also replace your lifters? Where did you get them?

No. I have hydraulics. This is the cam recommended to me from Comp Cams:
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If you want to check on specs on the cam, look up a part number 31-218-2 on our website.
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I'm thinking it may be too much cam - I'm thinking about it.

If you do a search on this forum for Comp Cams you'll be able to find a couple old threads with my cam info, but here it is:

Cam Blank: 35-000-5RR
Grind # FW 5442/5444 H112 +2
Duration: 218/226 @ .050" (I/E)
Lift: .308"/.320" (I/E) (0.493"/0.512" w/ 1.6 rocker)
Lobe Separation: 112

The cam performed great with the lobes reversed. Hopefully it will be as good or better with the cam ground correctly.

An update on my Comp Cams story:

Yesterday I received my cam (the 3rd one). I measured it and it matches the spec. card and is the specs I wanted. Comp said they had their "Master Grinder" (the guy who does cams for Nascar) do my cam and that they know what mistakes they were making and assured me it won't happen again.

Aside from this taking a little too long I have been happy with Comp's service. Along with the cam they sent me a new set of lifters and pushrods.

Hopefully I'll get the engine put together in a couple weeks and maybe get it in the boat so I can clear up some garage space.

The 350 that I rebuilt had the camshaft gear driven directly by the crankshaft gear. This setup reversed the rotation of the camshaft, distributor and oil pump relative to the the crankshaft. Allthough I have rebuilt several 351 Windsor's, I never really studied the cam chain cover to see if there was enough room for a gear drive setup. However, you are probably right.

Has anyone ever thought about coverting a RH engine to a gear driven camshaft. This will allow the use of conventional LH rotating cams, distributor and oil pump. The 350 Chevy in my old 64 Chris Craft was set up this way and made it very easy to get the cam I wanted. I actually used a cam spec set up for RV's to get the most low end torque possible. Just a thought.

I'm no cam wizard but I have researched the different profiles and why they are. One comment I remember is this guy wrote a tech article about dual pattern cams, he wasn't against them he just said there is a purpose and a place for them. He said sprint cars sometimes used a dual pattern cam to soften the "getting back in it" and consequently lowering the compression for rookie drivers because on dirt the rookie would stab the throttle half way through the turn and bust loose the tires and usually spin out and the dual pattern cam would help prevent this. He also said that now days the exhaust systems in cars are better and the need for longer exhaust duration wasn't so beneficial, boat exhaust systems at 3" and short distance have to be fairly free flowing. I've had dual pattern cams and just wanted to try a single, might note even notice the difference.

This is the response I got back from Lazrecams after requesting info on reverse rotation cam grinding. The cam I chose to reference was a Ford 351 1962-1992 Hyd grind of 215 degrees @50 intake/exhaust and .486 lift both sides, a bit more than stock marine grind. I've never used them so don't come to me if the lobes are bass-ackwards.

"Yes, indeed Cap'n! We certainly can. $188.11 for most hydraulic and lifter grinds. And it's typically only 2-4 working days from order to ready to ship."

Cam Wizard

captan1@pacbell.net writes:
Can you grind me a cam like ( 2650137 ) a or b? for a reverse rotation ford 351 1977 marine engine?

Steve

882001-The easiest way to tell if your cam is right would be to pull one of the valve covers, remove a couple rocker arms and check pushrod lift with a dial indicator. This will tell you if you have the correct lift on the correct lobes. There is no way to tell if the ramps are right without some pretty sophisticated equipment and a detailed drawing of what they're supposed to be.

Other than that if the engine runs ok and you're happy with the performance I wouldn't worry about it. You're not going to damage anything that you wouldn't replace in a cam swap anyway. Like I said I never would have known mine was ground incorrectly until I took my engine apart for other reasons.

As far as other suppliers for RH marine cams I couldn't find anyone other than Comp that would grind a high performance RH cam. Crane used to but no longer does as I understand. Federal Mogul and Dana (Clevite) sell cams ground to OEM specs. The custom grind cam from Comp was still have the price of what Ski DIM wanted for an OEM replacement PCM cam.