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WET vs ROT- the documentary

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    Posted: October-08-2011 at 12:30pm
Foam was sealed, and faired then a couple of coats of cloth before bonding the plywood to the stringer tops and hull sides.

One layer of biax has been applied to the plywood for a little impact resistance.

I cant believe that I am saying this, but I am starting to wish I bought the US Composites Epoxy. No offense to my Michigan brothers Meade and Ian Gougeon, but that West System is expensive!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-23-2011 at 1:22pm
I 'wet-in' the top of the foam, but that was with a glass floor. I would glass that in and let it cure or not depending on your plan with the ply.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WOFTAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-23-2011 at 1:15pm
I have the stringers all glassed in and I have changed my mind to include both plywood and foam on this rebuild.

I have used two part pour in foam. The top of the foam is no longer closed cell due to cutting off the areas of over- expansion. I have been contemplating sealing the top of the foam with some light fiberglass cloth soaked with epoxy before I install the plywood floor.

Should I do it or is it overkill?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79TiqueRebuild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2011 at 2:26am
Looking real good Mike.
I remember some of the guys were soaking the biax or applying epoxy on a table covered with drop cloth or wax paper and letting soak till almost translucent then placing on the stringers. I would try to dry fit it and then wet it down. It sure likes the epoxy. Monty

I found this pages 9&10 talk about biax coverages too bad pictures aren't available still
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cjnovus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2011 at 11:12am
Do you know if the PO did it or a "pro"?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WOFTAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2011 at 1:23am
Thanks guys. I was very happy with the work. I put the spark back under me to get this project going at a brisker pace.

I have bedded all of the stringers, played around with foam between the secondaries and massaged the biax over the tops of the stringers.

I cut strips and epoxied them to the tops of the primaries. I would love to see any pics of how the biax was applied over the tops of the primaries that are curved (under where the motor mounts are located).

I thought of scoring the sides of the curve to allow the biax to bend on those compound angles. In addition to looking ugly, I was afraid that it would compromise the strength of the biax.

I am looking for some guidance here. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bue--ller?

Pics



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wacko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2011 at 3:52am
Seats look Great!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2011 at 11:12am
Those do look nice. You dog looks like it want's to hike it's leg on them . That would be the first thing mine would do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kristof Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2011 at 8:17am
Those seats look really nice Mike.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WOFTAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 8:07pm
I just got the seats back from the upholstery shop. The only thing that was not in need to replacement were the backs of the rear and spotter seat. They will need to wait.



Now, I need to get back to work on the floor. All stringers are tabbed in. I could use some guidance:

1) I am putting biax over the tops. Do the primaries and secondaries need this treatment or just the primaries?

2) My boat has the aluminum engine bed. Do I need to put two layers of biax over that area alone or over the entire primary.


3) If I do need to put biax over the primaries and secondaries, do I do it with one piece covering the primary and secondary or do I cover each individually?

4) As for the aft crossmember between primaries, to I install that first, then glass over the tops of the stringers or do it the other way around?

Thanks guys.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2011 at 12:47am
Pete - According to Ralph in 'Parting the Waters', the pylon was invented (by CC) to prevent strong skiers from pulling the towboat off course.

Maybe that is what you were referring to, just had to look it up!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-26-2011 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by Keeganino Keeganino wrote:

   Some of the 60's boats came without pylons so you had to tow off of it.

Keegan,
I've got to disagree with this statement - sorry! The boats that didn't come with a pylon (optional on some models), were not meant to pull anything off the aft lifting ring.

BTW, the center pylon pull point came about because the boats were able to turn better. A aft pull, prevented lots of boats from turning back then!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-26-2011 at 8:53pm
I have towed off of my rear lifting ring with no problems since the rebuild. I think I posted a picture of my new reinforcement on page 2 of this thread. 2 Layers of 3/4" ply laminated together and the original hardware. There is also ply laminated to the underside of your transom above the gas tank. Mine was rotten so I replaced that too. PITA! Some of the 60's boats came without pylons so you had to tow off of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swatkinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-26-2011 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by WOFTAM WOFTAM wrote:

That was a real question but I am happy you found it humorous.

Any suggestions?


Mike,
You must not have known that most on here frown on any discussion about a CC towing an inflatable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WOFTAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-26-2011 at 3:09pm
That was a real question but I am happy you found it humorous.

Any suggestions?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-26-2011 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by WOFTAM WOFTAM wrote:

   

While I am here, I would like to reinforce the rear lifting point so that I may use it to pull a tube and still have passengers in the rear seat.

I assume the strength will need to be in the area in the underside of the deck. Any suggestions on dimensions or material?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WOFTAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-26-2011 at 11:48am
I have all of the stringers bedded, filleted and taped.

While I am here, I would like to reinforce the rear lifting point so that I may use it to pull a tube and still have passengers in the rear seat.

I assume the strength will need to be in the area in the underside of the deck. Any suggestions on dimensions or material?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2011 at 1:08am
Those west system tubes are way too expensive. You should just get some cabosil and thicken your own epoxy. The secondaries have to be bedded too... secondaries should basically get the same layup as the mains. I like the 50 cent discount on the tubes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote connorssons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2011 at 12:45am
Hay Woftam! hang in there, im feeling your pain. Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WOFTAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-13-2011 at 12:36pm
Progress ground to a halt as I realized I am about 10 yards shy on my tape estimate. I am doing 2 layers of 8.9oz 2", 4" and 8". Man, that was disheartening. I even had an entire day for myself...Mains are tabbed in and one stringer is in.

A question: How is the secondary tabbed in the area where it is doubled up? When I removed the secondaries, it not appear that there was any tabbing in there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WOFTAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-16-2011 at 11:47pm
I decided to jump this afternoon. After leveling the boat, measuring, re-leveling and re measuring, I decided I had it right and started bedding the stringers. I had 2 tubes of West Six-10 thickened epoxy, more than enough to bed one main, right? Wrong.

I have one stringer bedded at about 75% with the two tubes completely gone...It seems that although the tubes are regular size, their contents are empty when the plunger reaches half- way up the tube. See the black line on the side of the tubes? That tells you when you are out of sauce. I wish I had seen that before I started.



Soooo, I have $40 worth of epoxy in one of the mains. As much as I hate to do so, I am going to buy 4 more and finish the mains and then switch to another mix for the secondaries.

Here is how she sits now.




EDIT:

I got on the phone with West Systems tech support and explained my experience with the six-10. Bruce, the tech adviser said that I could use their 404 additive to their 105 resin and 205 hardener and it would be just fine and more cost effective. Needless to say, I mixed up a batch and filled some empty caulk tubes and the stringers are bedded as I am writing this.

I hope to fillet this weekend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2011 at 5:57pm
I just used epoxy and a million clamps. No screws anywhere in my stringer system layup. After I bedded the stringers I may have forced thickened epoxy into the large voids with a bondo spreader before I laid the fillets. Either that or I just did it as I filleted. You have to move fast when you do the fillets. Filled epoxy kicks quick when you make a large batch. I used gallon freezer bags to lay a bead down for the fillet like a frosting bag, then shaped the fillet with the round top edge of a bondo spreader.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WOFTAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2011 at 12:55pm
What did you use to attach the secondaries togetherk? Straight epoxy or did you use some mechanical fasteners as well?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2011 at 8:37am
Mike,
I suggest filling the gaps with the thickened epoxy. Less work than adding more wood and the result will be fine. The empty caulk tubes you fill work great.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2011 at 7:19am
Mike it looks as though the engine cradle is hard up against those stringers. You may want to put a bit of packing between them to allow for the layers of glass and cloth that will build the thickness of the stringer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WOFTAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2011 at 11:44pm
Thanks for the quick response.

Here are the pics:







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2011 at 11:31pm
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

Keegan, that is beautiful work. Did you wrap the stringers with cloth as well?


Thank you. The next steps were to 2 layers each of 2", 4", and 8" 8.9 oz e-cloth tape. Then 12" biaxial up both sides and 1 over the top. 2 cap layers of biax from pylon to tranny mounts.







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2011 at 11:16pm
Keegan, that is beautiful work. Did you wrap the stringers with cloth as well?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2011 at 10:59pm
I had a few gaps that were substantial and just rolled with it. I bedded my stringers in a nice bed of thickened epoxy and then did a nice fat fillet. After all of that you are rock solid. You could lay some cloth or mat in the areas with large gaps but I did not. Epoxy is a pretty forgiving media to work with and is super strong. You will be fine. I was freaking out too at this phase but my favorite new saying became "its within tolerance"!

I had at least a 3/4" gap at the end of the stringer here and you would never know after it is bedded and filleted.



Fillets


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WOFTAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2011 at 10:36pm
I have re-ground where the old stringers were and gotten rid of a lot of extra glass. This left me with a rather large gap (3/4") in some places between the bevel on the stringer and the hull floor. I would like to know your thoughts on the following:

1) Install as is. Do so with temporary tabbing (to keep primaries level and vertical) Mix up a batch of epoxy with adhesive filler and inject with a caulk gun, create a fillet and begin tabbing.

2) rip the bottom part of the stringer off using a table saw, get more fir, spend more time fitting, then join to the good part of the stringer then install and tab.

3) I read something about building up areas (filling gaps )with CSM and that this technique has been used by folks on this site with good results.

4) Square up and start tabbing as-is. I don't like the idea of the voids, but the majority of the strength will come from the tabbing, not the bottom of the stringer exerting force on the bottom of the hull, right?

Thanks Y'all,

Pics of situation to follow.
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