plywood recommend |
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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Posted: November-28-2011 at 2:55pm |
junoir woody,thanks for sharing info.i appreciate all input,knowledge is power.i did learn from your link,thank you.i was just poking fun at the god reference in one of the posts.when people feel the nedd to inject a little faith into everything it gets under my skin,i hope i dont offend.thanks again.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bruce,
I really don't see what would be gained since I really don't consider the floor as a major structural component, Yes it adds to the hull but not much. Yes, it would be nice if the marine would be the same price! |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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If exterior fir plywood and the same size/grade in marine plywood were the same price, would marine plywood be the better choice?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jack, I have nothing in writing. All I know is my Atom is Fir, Billy's Dart is Fir, a friend of mine has 3 CC's and his painted hull is Fir plus, when I was working at Watercraft Sales back in the late 60's early 70's, I repaired 2 painted CC's and they were Fir. I still feel your hull sides had a bright area from the factory and the reason for the Mahogany. |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Hey bishop,
It would appear that the fir with a layer of cloth will suit your needs. As a matter of exercise only I would suggest that you price the cost to purchase and send ply to your home from Bateau. It may well exceed the budget. Just good to know the difference to make an informed decision. The forum at Bateau is a good one. Though I haven't participated I shall as soon as I start the building of a Phantom 18. I ,purchased the plans and marine ply to build her before my son found the 1950 CC we are currently working on. as with this site, I have found the members for the most part are very willing to share and always mean the best with their advice. I do enjoy reading about their fishing adventures also. |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Pete, could you provide me with some information to back up the statement that CC used fir ply in hull construction. Mine appears to be mahogany even on the painted sections. I just find it hard to believe they would cut that corner particularly back in the 50's when mahogany was more readily available. Most problems occur where there is an intrusion on the material such as holes made for fasteners and exhaust etc.
I made no effort of comparison to anything, simply, I wanted to share the information as informative. It is up to the reader to decide as to it's relevance to their project. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jack, I don't feel you are comparing "apples to apples" here. Again, please understand we are talking about ply with glass on it for a floor in a no foam hull and some bulkheads and not hull sides or bottom. As mentioned, CC used Fir ply for it's painted hull sides and bottom. I have NO problems with the typical Fir checking problem since it was CPES'd and this is without glass. Fir ply no matter what grade it is, will check. The poster should have used some CPES to bind the outer layer of Fir veneer together. |
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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interesting.seems like they were having problems with ply thatonly had epoxy and was being bent.they all seem to say everything that had glass held up fine.the only comment on glue i saw was in reference to not being able to be bent.how come there's no good fishing and fellowshiping talk on this site
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26147&p=262988#p262988
Any interested in problems which can occur from use of substitute ply for marine ply may find this topic interesting. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Greg, Sheldon, Leonard and the guy's.....nice catch
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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The original foam backed up the glass cloth. in it's absence the ply will take over the support it offered. therefore it needs strength and longevity. I'll let this one rest for now I promise.
I have a hankering to get back to work on the stem but life gets complicated at times. Mama needed a new kitchen and then there's that little cottage in Florida that beacons this time of year. don' fear Pete, I will return to the utility soon and there will be pics. Need to dust off the topic. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jack, I never said the floor doesn't have any structural responsibilities! But, you must understand that a foamed hull only had a layer of glass for it's floor. I feel you are over engineering this ply issue. BTW, you do understand that CC never even used marine grade ply for their ply hull skins don't you?? It was just a good exterior grade of fir if painted and an import mahogany if bright. Hey, how's that stem repair going? We haven't seen any updates lately. And, we always love the pictures! |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Hey Pete, Just saying here that the the deck could be built with 3/8 in. Marine ply for a couple hundred bucks. This would provide a good base for the glass as it is a scaffold which bears some structural responsibilities. Please don't underestimate it's importance.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jack, Just the facts: I have stated many times in many posts, the difference between marine and other grades!!! Please note that the application here on CCfan is for no foam flooring and some bulkheads These are NOT structural applications!! Your blatant statement about just going with marine led me to believe you did not know the application and you haven't read many of the stringer job threads. Since you know all the facts about marine grade, you too could have explained why you recommended it. Sorry for the confusion. Greg's statement "ply is a framework for glass" is spot on. |
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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as always thanks for the replies.greg,i think you got me straightend out.i realize it doesnt have to be pretty.this stuff looks much nicer then the regular 3 ply exterior and its halfthe price.maybe i'll buy a peice this week and post a pic.
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Who's Sheldon, Walowitz?
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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you would think that attached to the plywood that it would be waterproof, its not, i belive at the time i too did research on marine ply and found out that it was the final finish that was the difference and for its intended purpose, it did not warrant the extra money...i believe it had the name attached and as everything with the label of marine on it....you get twice the money,
but, i will to do some more research Sheldon and get back to you |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Sorry about the confusion Brian. Don't get hung up on cabinet grade unless you're building in a galley.
My feeling on ply is that it's a framework for the glass. The glass is where your real strength comes in. I was looking for my fir stringers when I found my fir ply. It was clearly a good product(had been there a while, stacked right, etc) and I remembered that Pete liked fir for adhesion. As it turns out, he was spot on. Once a piece of wood is soaked with CPES and properly buttoned up with glass and epoxy, I figure it'll last as long as I need it to. |
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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easy now,pete doesnt want us new guys getting lazy with free answers.i assure all of you i have been researching and taking notes for a year.this site is by far the best resource i have found.greg's rebuild on his BFN used fir plywood which i thought was listed as cabinet grade.my question is regarding the glue.if what i found at $26 a sheet is infact cabinet grade fir can i use it?
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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I'm having a bit of trouble determining what the intended use is in this instance and I won't even take the bait on the statement that marine ply is a waste of money. Might I also add that there are significant differences between the specs on veneer thickness and grain direction and also no voids in marine ply. Pete's standard reply about doing research on this site is short on fact and strong on supposition that there is any information here to educate one at all on this matter. If the application is for hull material and we're talkin only a sheet or too there is a false saving in cutting the corner. Just the facts.
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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x4, lol
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jack, You have some reading to do to find out all about plywood. Info can be found here as there are plenty of discussions about it. If you really want to get technical, an internet search will bring up all the specs. It's fine with me if you want to use it but, as mentioned it's just a waste of money! |
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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$96 a sheet .not happening
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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I gotted baited into it once, if I remember correctly I had to order it and it was 96.00 a sheet,
I believe they are glued the same as normal, and the difference is the finish...normal plywood is just fine for your intended use, no treated. |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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several people have mentioned that marine ply is a waste of$$$$
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and i work 100 feet away from Home Depot.
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Just curious here. Why not get a sheet of marine ply?
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Look for a lumber yard...an old one.
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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thanks guys.label says made from fir harvested in northwest.i'll look to see where it was actually made.too bad this particular HD is in the city with a not so knowledgable staff.
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Tim, I concur, there might be little kid fingers in the Chinese stuff
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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