1984 2001 rebuild. Pete, go away. |
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Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Posted: January-27-2012 at 9:04pm |
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Does anyone have measurements of the battery box to the pylon?
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Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Yoopersully, I did go over the thermal expansion on one of the previous pages. I ended up using pine for the secondaries, I glassed them in the other night.
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YooperSully
Senior Member Joined: August-07-2009 Location: Hancock,MI Status: Offline Points: 316 |
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Two Questions have come to me during reading this post. First has anyone considered the Expansion/Contraction properties of Trex. If you do your fiberglass work in warm weather like most fiberglass needs, then you store in the winter( Gets to 20 below F. here not sure where everyone else is) you might be encountering a 90 degree temperature change. A few years ago a product came out for residential exterior trim called Azek. Now I now its different then Trex but I would imagine not by much. When I first came across it I researched the installation instructions on line and followed them to a T. The company was our of Pennsylvania so I figured that the seasons were comparable to ours. Two fasteners were required every 16" for 1x4 trim and pieces joining each other were glued with plumbers pvc glue. In our neck of the woods this stuff would bow and warp terribly in the summer and then in the winter it would shrink and gap. On a few places I noticed it even sheared the fasteners (16gauge). I vowed not to use it anymore. Then last year I had a customer who required it in there project so I called the company to voice my concerns and to see what they would recommend. They had stated that they had changed their fastening schedule to accommodate the expansion/contraction that I had experienced. They now recommend that you use two fasteners every 8" and fasteners no smaller than a #8 trim screw. All in all I guess the point I'm trying to make is that these (poly) composites move quite a bit and with out heavy duty fasteners locking them into or onto a substrate they will definitely move with the change in temperature.
My second question was about the trex that is pictured. The Trex we get in the Norther Mid-West is wood grain both sides and uniform color throughout. Not like the piece pictured. I was just curious if what your using is real Trex or if It's a big box stores Version. IMO I'd never use a product that can be bent into a arch on some ones deck as something that is suppose to be straight in my boat. |
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87' 2001
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MIskier
Senior Member Joined: July-29-2011 Location: Gulfcoast Status: Offline Points: 144 |
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That boat has been for sale since early June! |
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2006 MasterCraft PS 190
1986 CC Ski Nautique 2001 |
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Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Joe,
A big thanks for the tests, I appreciate the effort and help. I guess I'll go with wood for the secondaries and trex or azek for the rib supports. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Well I did a few quick tests using some US Composites Epoxy. I let it cure for about 4 days.
The Trex has a layer of material about 1/32 thick of uniform brown plastic that wraps over the top around the sides and maybe 3/16 around the bottom. It has the fake wood grain pattern and no doubt some serious UV stabalizers. The majority of the bottom is exposed composite material. I wanted to test both sides. I didnt score or sand any of the materials but I did prep the trex with acetone. in the first test I epoxied (using a layer of epoxy mat between two materials) two pieces of trex to a hunk of pressure treated 2x6. One piece of trex glued on the top side, one glued on the bottom side. Results are shown below. Top side fail.. it took little effort to knock off and there is no residual epoxy. Bottom side - not so bad.. failure occured at the wood material .. no adhesion failure. Next test is a bedding scenario of a stringer using the side of the trex as it ships, I used a bit of coosa as the substrate for comparison. This test was a fail for certain, it took no real effort to pull the coosa off and take all the fiberglass material with it the next sample uses an end of the trex with a cut from a table saw.. It took more pressure to break it apart but it still failed at the joint although it pulled a glass out of the joint with it An improvement but the saw cut seemed smoother and perhaps the heat of cutting effected the material locally because the cut edge clearly did not hold epoxy as well as the bottom. I did another sample with coosa attached to the bottom surface And it took a lot of force to break it but it failed the coosa --both sides of the joint held. My humble opinion - you could use it if you cut off the wood grained coating... and even then I would sand the substrate material because I wouldnt trust the saw cut surface. The bottom face sticks plenty well, but the coating is a bit of a spoiler I dont know if it woudl work to sand it but I wouldnt trust any bond made to it. I think it would take a lot of work to make it work well as a stringer. |
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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ya sometimes a home fabrication like that scares people especially for that price. What? Looks like a lot of problems to me. I dont think he'll ever sell that.
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Pete - (Twin Screw CC) You will have to update your alignment video to cover that one.
Eric - Do you have a manual for that gear box? I wonder how easy it is to dock with 2 screws? |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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WOFTAM
Groupie Joined: July-14-2010 Location: SW Michigan Status: Offline Points: 97 |
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Nice thread. I have a book that I have used in the past for varoius projects that you may be interested in picking up:
Elements of Boat Strength- David Gerr On another note, this CC is certainly one that did not go with the traditional rebuild. Twin screw ski boat? Take a lookee youself TWIN SCREW CC I'll bet the PA works well. I cant figure out why nobody has picked up this gem. It has been listed for awhile on the craigslist in my area. Good luck. |
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Just because you can does not mean you should.
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Ed
Senior Member Joined: September-15-2010 Location: Corona, CA Status: Offline Points: 130 |
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Max,
Nice looking boat!! Good luck with it, it's gona turn out nice!!!! |
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ny_nautique
Platinum Member Joined: June-01-2011 Location: Albany NY Status: Offline Points: 1215 |
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I was thinking more along the lines of "Ladies, I'm going to have to ask you to remove your tops".
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- Jeff
1999 Ski Nautique |
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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HA this is a police boat!! "PULLOVER, YOU with the tube!!! |
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Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Also, I aquired a PA system today. It was a ton of fun when I had one in my jeep, I think it will fit in great with the boat.
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Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Joe is a great guy, super knowledgeable with nice boats to prove it. The coosa is awesome, something I would have no problems knowing it was in my boat.
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ny_nautique
Platinum Member Joined: June-01-2011 Location: Albany NY Status: Offline Points: 1215 |
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Interested in finding out how your visit with Joe went Max. How do you like the Coosa?
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- Jeff
1999 Ski Nautique |
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DrCC
Grand Poobah Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
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So, Are the Test Results in yet ?
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Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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In related news, an order from us composites was delivered today.
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Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Ok that's about the exact route I was thinking. I'll get her in the air today.
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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I only removed one stringer at a time on my 83 when I did it so your support needs may vary, but I left the trailer under it and supported it only at the transom and the keel in the front. I just dropped the nose of the trailer and put blocks topped with slightly shaped 2x4s under each side of the transom. Then without removing the trailer I lifted the front of the boat by the lifting eye with a cherry picker and placed another few cinder blocks with a v shaped wood block about 6 inches behind the point where the keel starts to curve up. The whole thing was then sitting only an inch or so above the trailer, I figure the trailer under it should keep you from hitting the floor should your blocking skills not be so good.
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Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Have any of you guys been able to keep the boat on the trailer and just jack the bow? The front portion of my secondaries are lifted about 1 inch off the hull, is this from the hull being on the trailer? Or because they are just crowning while they dry out. If they are crowning while they dry out, it worries me because I'll be using them as my template. I would like to keep the trailer under the boat due to space constraints of my garage and they way I have to have the trailer turned. Also does anyone have any close ups of where they jacked the boat up on the bow and what you used to to cradle the hull.
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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reminds me of years ago when wolmanized started hitting the scene, my uncle spaced the floor with paint sticks between each board and about 2 years later the chair legs would fall thru the gaps
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Thanks bishop, I'm not worried about how it looks, because if I use it, you will never see it. In it's correct application, as a deck, it does hold up very well. Whatever decks you have seen where it sags like crazy and looks like bad, the builder/carpenter/contractor/homeowner either didn't compensate for the extra weight of it or didnt have proper spacing.
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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Max, i know iam late with my 2 cents,not that it means much.i have no experience with trex in a marine application but i can tell you from experience that it looks like a$$ after time in exterior use.it sags like crazy.i know it will not be exposed to direct sunlight but it wiil be exposed to heat.i dont know if it would be a concearn,but may be worth considering.BTW i like your interior,very retro.loose the bottom paint and your boat would be sweet.whatever you decide,thanks for saving a sweet boat.
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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interested to see the results of the adhesive test...in the name of science...i like the cop boat idea too...old style red and blue bar on top of the tower would really set it off hahaha
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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It will be interesting to find out the results of Joe's epoxy adhesion test on Trex but here's just a bit of info. Here's how epoxy just "pops" off polyethylene. What Joe's test will prove is if the addition of the wood flour to the polyethylene will increase the adhesion. I suspect not since I feel the wood is pretty saturated with the hot (in liquid form) polyethylene. Dave (our plastic expert!!) - any help here?
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Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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I have the time right now, just no money. Paying your way through college is tough without taking loans out. To the people who noticed it was at one point it was a salt water boat, this doesn't bother mensince it's getting a new power plant. If it was a big boat with two v8's that i didn't plan on replacing I would be more concerned. One of the ideas that Joe and I came up with while talking shop, is using a sheet of coosa for the decking where the driver and observer seat are mounted, so there are no spots for screw holes to rot the decking. This is good because I can save money by doing the decking where nothing is screwed, with ply, and only have to buy 1 sheet of coosa. To those who haven't seen it, Joe gave me some scraps and this stuff is pretty awesome. To the guys in the capital district, if you want to see it first hand let me know. Also last night Joe and I were talking about the weight of the trex, and I think I'm going to use azek for the ribs for weight concerns. For those who don't what it is, it's a popular trim for houses made out of PVC. You cn get it in nominal board sizes as well as 4x8 sheets. With the sheet sizes you could cut out bulk heads or something else of that nature. I thought of it as a floor option too, because it could be a maint free floor, without carpet (you can get it in white, but might be slippery) but I'm almost positive it wouldn't hold seat bases in, and the supports underneath it would have be around 11" because it's not that ridgid. Pete, i have full intentions of using epoxy and not liquid nails.
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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I feel your pain 2001 brother, no time, money and I surprised how many aches and pains I have from crawling in and out of that boat. Good luck and keep us updated. I know joe will probably be around to give you some pointers as well, thats a good resource to have in your backyard!! |
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Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Met up with Joe, he's going to test the epoxy on the trex. It was cool to see his boat, totally inspirational.
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MinaquaWI
Newbie Joined: May-02-2011 Location: Hudson, WI Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Hmm, the MSDS only says resistance to water is "very good". Pretty specific, huh?
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Current - 1991 Sport Nautique, 1970 Glastron GT-140, 1970's MasterCraft Jump Boat
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Nick, If you are doing a epoxy system, keep it all equal and use the same. You've been over looking at the "home improvement" places too much!! BTW, look up how hydroscopic liquid nails is!
What do you expect from MB? |
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