Siezed GT40 |
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Silver15
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2010 Location: Orlando Fl Status: Offline Points: 398 |
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Posted: August-04-2012 at 1:18am |
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Don't worry, Pete. I definitely wasn't about to try. (Although, I guess I need to learn at some point). I think I can manage the seal, though, hopefully.
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2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Worn pump clearances allowing oil to bypass the normal O ring seal. Since you are "new to transmission inter workings". I highly suggest you do not undertake a rebuild yourself. |
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Silver15
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2010 Location: Orlando Fl Status: Offline Points: 398 |
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What internal problems would you anticipate? I'm a little new to the transmission interworkings.
Thanks, Jake. |
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2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jake,
The leak will not hurt the trans as long as you keep it topped off. If it is the input shaft seal, understand that there may be other internal problems with the trans. |
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Silver15
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2010 Location: Orlando Fl Status: Offline Points: 398 |
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Checked with copy paper again before going out and found fresh drips on the bottom of the tranny underneath the interface between the engine and tranny. Must be that front seal on the input shaft. Dreaming, thanks, and I did be sure to check that; anything not to pull the tranny lol. Seems fine. I'm very tempted to lay out some bildge diapers under the tranny, keep it topped off, and let it slide until the end of season and mess with it this winter. Anybody think this could damage the tranny? I am aware, this is majorly shadetree.
Thanks, Jake. |
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2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16 |
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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mine was leaking from the shift lever... pretty quick O ring replacement if I remember correctly. you might check there also :)
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Silver15
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2010 Location: Orlando Fl Status: Offline Points: 398 |
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Good to hear. Napa is right around the corner. I am anticipating the tranny removal to be lots of fun as it was on the barracuda. Confused, went down again today to check and see where it was leaking from, and still no obvious signs of leakage anywhere!
Thanks for all input. Jake. |
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2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16 |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Not hard at all,the hardest is installing the speedi sleeve if needed and of course pulling it out.Napa has the sleeves
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Silver15
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2010 Location: Orlando Fl Status: Offline Points: 398 |
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Gary, I did notice your post from earlier and considered it. It definitely sounds like it could potentially be the culprit. The '86 I had came out of the same type of situation and needed a front end seal after a few weeks too. Go figure. I bet you're right on with that one. How difficult was it to change the seal? Never done it myself. The dampner should probably be replaced while it's apart, also. Well, crap. I wanted to ski some more this summer.
Thanks, Jake. |
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2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16 |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Hey Jake remember my post in the begining of this thread??? I know you have a different trans but due to the conditions that yours and mine were kept in I'll bet the end results were the same,alot of oil in the boat!. The input shaft of the trans rusted and when running tore up the seal.Mine had pitting too so I used a Speedi Sleeve to fix it. So pull your trans and take a look. |
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Silver15
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2010 Location: Orlando Fl Status: Offline Points: 398 |
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Gordon, we stuck some white copy paper down there hoping to locate where it is leaking from. We ran it under load, but no faster than about 20kts. We saw no leaks. It's the weirdest thing. Then again, when the issue began to arise, we were at skiing speeds. Are there any common problems associated with these symptoms?
Thanks. Jake. |
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2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16 |
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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Did you run it under load? If you are not seeing it, I'd clean out the bilge as much as possible, fill it, then run it hard (maybe even with the engine cover off so you or someone can watch). Maybe put some paper towels or something else under the tranny to catch anything leaking (hopefully seeing where it is leaking).
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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Silver15
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2010 Location: Orlando Fl Status: Offline Points: 398 |
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Hey, all, I'm back with a problem. Boat has been running excellent and faithfully pulling me skiing with no issues until today when the tranny started slipping on hard turns and takeoffs halfway through my run. Come to find out, the fluid was low as I had figured. It's definitely leaking from somewhere because the bildge is a nasty oily mess now. Could it be one of the main seals, cooler, or hoses to cooler? Filled it back up and ran it watching closely for leaks. Can't see any. Anyone had a similar problem? I'm stumped. Thanks in advanced!
Jake. |
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2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16 |
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Silver15
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2010 Location: Orlando Fl Status: Offline Points: 398 |
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We figured we'd try the "process of elimination" tactic, and new spark plugs ended up solving it. Yeah, it's run pretty well on 87... I guess from a longevity standpoint it would be beneficial to run better quality....
Jake. |
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2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16 |
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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How'd you determine it was a plug? Also, my GT40 manual says use 89, which is what I've always used with no problems. |
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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I'd stay away from the 87 if possible. Most likely, you don't need 91 or 93 but you should at least be running 89.
Congrats on a simple fix and getting on the water |
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Donald80SN
Grand Poobah Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Denver, NC Status: Offline Points: 3896 |
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Mine will not run on regular. I run premium, but could probably run mid grade.
FYI, Donald |
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Silver15
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2010 Location: Orlando Fl Status: Offline Points: 398 |
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Strangely enough, the problem turned out to be a spark plug, or perhaps multiple. Weird; they're all new plugs..... Anyway, it runs good for now. First evening of skiing behind it. This boat's got some great pull and an awesome ski wake in comparison with the older nautique. Do you think running 87 would damage it? Thanks for all and any words of wisdom. Tried to upload a video, won't work :(.
Jake |
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2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16 |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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I know my, older more simple, engine is supposed to get 89. I'd imagine the GT-40 would have the same or greater requirement. 87 is not high enough, whether or not that's what's causing the problem is another question.
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Silver15
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2010 Location: Orlando Fl Status: Offline Points: 398 |
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TRB, right. We won't be making any definite conclusions until we have time to stick the compression gauge on that cylinder and see how it reads out. Brian, you have a good point about it surging. For the first little while, it would surge and try to go full steam, but now it's a fairly constant missing on at least one cylinder. The strange thing is, this issue is in direct conjunction with us reconnecting the built in tank. We figured it was getting bad fuel. The fuel it's pumping is clear and clean, though. We changed the FFC filter and added an additional inline filter for good measure. No difference. So, from that, I suppose it is reasonable to conclude that it was just a coincidence. The main reason we suspect the valve at this point, is mostly based upon Art's experience with these engines. Could definitely be wrong though. We'll find out soon enough. Not at all looking forward to the tear down of this complicated monster. One other point would be that it was previously running on 93 octane, and now, on 87, it's having this problem. Does this sound like a connection, or does it really matter the octane on this engine?
Jake |
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2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16 |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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But it sometimes gives full power? Wouldn't a burned valve miss consistently. I would imagine that as a perfectly timed miss coming with every engine rotation. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21186 |
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Thats an interesting way to draw that conclusion. Better do a compression test, followed by a leakdown test (if necessary) before jumping to conclusions and tearing the engine down. |
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Silver15
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2010 Location: Orlando Fl Status: Offline Points: 398 |
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Okay, Thanks, TRB. I'll search up a thread on that. Unfortunately, it seems that we've run into a more immediate problem, though. After the boat ran great for several days with the new alternator etc, we finally cleaned up the interior and put it all back together to use it for the summer. As soon as we put the boat in, I noticed it was running a little rough. Trying to plain out I could feel it hesitating. Drove for 15 minutes or so back to the house and it never fixed itself. I could feel when it would surge into full power and then pull back again almost as if a cylinder was getting bad spark or something. Our good friend, Art, came over to take a look at it. (Very experienced Correct Craft mechanic of many years)Based upon what cylinder was not firing (confirmed with heat gun) and the engine's horrid mantainance history, he diagnosed it as a burned out valve. Great. I guess this means we'll be pulling the heads. Again, this hasn't been 100% confirmed. Could still be a fuel or spark issue. So, now we're back at square one. A little frustrating, but can't complain. Hopefully sourcing rebuild parts for these heads won't be too much of a hassle.
Jake |
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2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21186 |
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RH rotation Ford Windsors require CCW starters. LH rotation requires a CW starter.
Oil for flat tappet cam motors (including the GT40) has been discussed at length... search if you want the back story. 2 good choices that have been identified are: Valvoline Racing VR1 20w50 (conventional oil) Mobil1 15w50 (synthetic) |
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Silver15
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2010 Location: Orlando Fl Status: Offline Points: 398 |
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Oh, okay. I wasn't sure which ones were which. I know the older ones such as the one in or older Nautique spin the opposite direction. This posed a confusing discussion when we were buying a starter.... The technician said that it was evident that it was spinning one direction while we suggested that HAD to be impossible. Can I get some people's opinions on the best oil for the Gt40? Synthetic?
Jake |
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2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21186 |
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Yup, you have it right... assuming we're talking about marine engines. I believe the automotive world views things opposite (from the front) which can be very confusing if you start mixing worlds. |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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This is correct. |
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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Sorry for my ignorance, but I want to re-confirm that rotational direction is based on looking at the engine from the rear. A LH rotation engine turns the crankshaft pulley clockwise when viewed from the front (which is where I am usually looking at it from). :)
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21186 |
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^^That is not quite correct. The vast majority of PCM engines used in CC's have been LH (standard) rotation since 1989. This includes all of the HO versions that were introduced in '92 (carb), '94 (TBI) and '95 (MPEFI GT40), as well as the standard (non-HO) versions. |
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Silver15
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2010 Location: Orlando Fl Status: Offline Points: 398 |
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One notable difference between the GT40 and older engines, is that it turns the opposite direction. The transmission contains a reducer, and an inverter which changes the direction of the rotation.
Anyway, I spent most of today cruising around the lake on the Ski Nautique. Seems to run great! GT40 has LOTS of power compared to the '86. It's really unbelievable how effortlessly it plains. Pics coming soon! Can't believe how this boat was literally brought back to life! -Jake |
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2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16 |
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