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Strut Stuck

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    Posted: June-11-2012 at 1:58am
Thanks Gary.

Not much progress to report. Life's had me on the go.

Cleaned up the strut and started on recess. I haven't worked with fiberglass and resins in about 40 years so I'm having to study up a bit to regain my confidence.


Initial clean up.


Chasing a void.



Here between my finger tips the fiberglass ain't right. Tapping here I get a sound like tapping on a plastic putty knife lying on a Formica counter. A raspy sound compared to the thud of tapping elsewhere in the recess.   I guess I’ve got to go deeper.


I’m curious about why the rudder port is so well reinforced topside and the strut is not. I haven’t yet looked into how deep the stress fractures are topside above the strut, but am wondering if this whole area should be reinforced. How thick should the hull be above the strut?
Murph
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Gary S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2012 at 2:39am
I found the paper work for the clevis kit,it's Teleflex SA 27314
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2012 at 8:02pm
Thanks Jim. Sorry about the bearings. Been there. I used to live on Six Mile Creek. It'll be fun to run around there again sometime soon and meet you guys.
Murph
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimsport93 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2012 at 7:44pm
Mark,yes,I did take that picture last year at Sunset Cove.
Did not realize you had sold the boat until I found this post.
We were on our way up 400 last Sunday to Charleston Park and blew out a set of wheel bearings. So, we did not make it last weekend. Hopefully, we will be up there this weekend.
Murphy welcome to the club!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2012 at 1:34pm
I'd like that Mark. Great pic Jim! Thanks!
Murph
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MAN - GA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2012 at 11:58am
I really like that picture Jim you must have taken it as I don't remember seeing that one in my photo albums. Haven't seen you guys in the last couple weekends and hope all is going well with you. We'll have to get Murphy down on Lanier to introduce him to the Lanier crowd sometime.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimsport93 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 10:37pm
Nice looking boat BTW!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimsport93 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 8:49pm
Well I gotta say that Mark used that boat well. He was on Lanier many times with wife, daughter and two sons, cruising, skiing (don't think I saw any tubing!) and enjoying a classic boat.
Lot of stress on an older hull. Probably moved some things around a bit! But, hey it was worth it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 6:02pm
Pete, the boat was bottom painted some time ago. But, I don't feel any evidence of repair in the strut/rudder area. I'll start cleaning things up and keep you posted on my progress.

And thanks Gary. I'll address the steering linkage when I get there.
Murph
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 5:19pm
Murph,
I just reread your post and missed the cracking problem the first time! On the inside, I'd do some grinding to see how deep these cracks are. CC put a pretty thick coat of pigmented resin in their bilges. It's decorative and does need to come off anyway if a repair is needed. The repair is done on the inside.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 4:55pm
While your back there fix your rudder connection as well. You need one of these
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 4:53pm
Murph,
Can you se any evidence that a repair was done around the strut and rudder port on the OUTSIDE of the hull? Check for an uneven bottom with your hand. It's just a thought here about why you have the recess's.

I see some stress cracking on the outside but not inside. I wouldn't worry too much about it on the outside since that really isn't structural. Check close on the inside. Has the bottom been painted?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 4:36pm
Thanks Pete! Sounds simple enough. We'll see if I can do it all right the first time. Lost a fair amount of glass with the stut. Would you replace it?

Here are pics with masurements and inside conditions. Note, the rudder port is recessed too. Odd as well? Lots of stress cracks inside and one long, straight, side to side crack (arrows) that has me curious. I wonder if I should glass over this area to shore up any weakness that may have developed over the years.



Mark, I may have found your missing key.

Murph
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 2:37pm
Tim,
My Tique does not have a recessed strut base.

Murph,
All is not lost here. Let's move forward with a plan. If the strut base is tight in the hull recess, machine some (1/16" is plenty) off the base edges. This will give you some room to move the strut for alignment. Clean up the recess. Dry fit the strut to see what direction the strut needs to go. (support the front end of the shaft to take the weight off it - make sure the shaft is "happy" by turning it in the cutlass) Since the shaft is high in the log, we know the front of the strut base needs to be lower. Make sure you can also twist the strut some from port to starboard. Wrap the base in some plastic wrap. Mix up a batch of thickened epoxy and spread it in recess. Bolt in the strut using the shaft to check alignment to the hull log. Cure, remove, refit to check and bed in 4200.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 2:24pm
I've been wondering, too, if Mark did not support the forward end of the shaft in the log center when he aligned and mounted the 6A6. That would explain a lot. And, the slopping to port at permanent install is very possible. Seems to me from the amount of wear that the shaft was rubbing the log and stuffing box long before it broke. Another issue here is that the 6A6 that Mark put on is a lot bigger than the 6a he took off.
I'll post more pics soon. Then I have to get some real work done. Mark, I think I found your coupler key.
Murph
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MAN - GA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 2:07pm
I mocked up at least 10 times trying to get the darn thing centered - I cannot confirm that I checked it again after applying 4200 though so this is probably the downfall - I know that when I finally felt confident that all the bases were covered I sealed it up with the 4200 in the evening - maybe I was tired and thought I had done so much to make it right on the mockups that I never went back and checked as you say having to use the BFH. I do remember though supporting front of shaft when I bolted up and maybe this threw it out. Bottom line is it was fall 2010 which is getting past my memory. Right now it is all said and done and Murphy is going to follow through and make it right with the support of CCF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by MAN - GA MAN - GA wrote:

Then once I had this centered checked it all with the shaft in place before permanently mounting.

This is key.

1) Did you support the weight of the shaft and find where it spins freely in the strut, and make sure it corresponded to the center of the shaft log?

2) Did you confirm once you were permanantly mounting the strut (or even better, WHILE you were permanantly mounting the strut) that it was still in fact aligned to the log? Very small variations in strut location resulting from slop in the bolt holes will change alignment at the log significantly. Easily to the degree that we're seeing in the pictures above.

On our BFN, we dry fit the strut and tested the shaft with the log to make sure we were in the ballpark. When we permanently mounted it, we bedded it with 5200 and snugged up the bolts, and rechecked it. It required a few taps with a BFH to get the shaft perfectly centered in the log. Once tightened down all the way, we checked it again.

Im guessing one of the steps above got missed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MAN - GA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 1:44pm
Yes I had it straight in the log. I mocked up everything with a long dowel first b/c it was easier than trying to align with the heavier shaft. Then once I had this centered checked it all with the shaft in place before permanently mounting. I did have to get the strut mounting base machined because there was a high ridge front to back on the strut mounting base left from casting process to get it sitting level in the strut mounting recess. As for the rubbing inside the log and the packing gland my thought is that it rubbed when the shaft broke and was unsupported at the trans coupler - I did have to get towed and the shaft turned during the tow. I don't have any ideas on how the strut got off center - I know I didn't hit anything nor was there any signs of stress from hitting something
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 1:17pm
Fascinating. The strut on the '71-72 Skiers were most definitely not recessed- which shares the same hull and strut (6A) as the M16 and Ski Tique. Neither is the 6A strut on the ~74-75 Mustang17 parts boat I have. I dont recall how the strut was mounted on my '78 Tique- if a change was made, then it may have been recessed as well? Pete, whats the story on your Tique?

Back on topic: Mark, when you mounted the new strut, did you not get it aligned to the shaft log? That seems to be the implication here, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MAN - GA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 12:52pm
The hull side of the recess was white gel when I removed/replaced the strut. I am assuming that this was the original strut on the boat as it had all the brown sticky goo that took me a while to get off while cleaning up the area. On the bilge side all the original gel in the bilge matches with no sign of modification - the area is thickened where the strut mounting bolts go thru hull about 1/2" - 5/8" from what I remember. My guess is the 4200 I installed at time of reinstall pulled off the gelcoat when Murphy pulled it off thus revealing fiberglass.

When I reinstalled the strut I filled holes with thickened epoxy and redrilled new holes per spacing on new strut base. The hole spacing of old/new strut did not align perfectly




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 12:17pm
Pete's right- that hull should not have a recessed strut. If it came that way originally, you'd have gel under the strut- not bare glass. I wonder if someone moved the strut forward and then recessed it? Is there any evidence of previous repairs in the area? Old holes filled, etc? Inside the bilge may have more clues than the outside, with the bottom paint. Get a measurement from the edge of the transom to where the strut is mounted- I'll compare it to my boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 11:32am
Well, it's a rare bird I guess. Last four of the Hull ID- M75C. Look at the old strut at Tim's "Bad advice?" link above. It was recessed when Mark bought it. And, it has to be for the 6A6 to match the shaft log.   What concerns me is how thin the cloth is there. Whatever, it's time to buy resin and cloth. Any advice on getting the surface right would be appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 9:01am
Murph,
Somethings going on!! A 75 should not have a recessed strut!!! No wonder you couldn't get under a corner with the wire. Where's Mark? We need to here the full story.
This is not the end of the world but rather a small hill that needs to be climbed.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2012 at 4:05am
Thank you Gary!

Tim, I wasn't sure who you were talking to, but thanks for posting those links, more of my story. I'll have to read more.

And Pete, I'm gettin' up there too. It's hard to keep up!

Now, the good news! The strut is free. The bad news - I can't seem to swing my big mallet without getting in trouble. (Some things don't change.)





The words Murphy and boat are not a good combination in my garage at the moment.

But hey, tomorrow is another day! And, my center console should be home from the shop, under budget, by friday!
Murph
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2012 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

SkiBear bought MAN-GA's boat.

Tim,
I'm sure glad you're around to fill in the gaps that I miss!

Mark,
Sorry but there was defiantly an alignment problem with your old boat. Fill us in on the problems if you care to. It may be beneficial to others doing a strut/shaft/engine alignment.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2012 at 9:00pm
You 2 guys would not be getting trouble if you were working instead playing on the internet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2012 at 8:31pm
SkiBear bought MAN-GA's boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2012 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Stick around and you'll learn- we harass Pete any chance we get!

And I can't pick up on what you're eluding too even after reading through the two threads you linked?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2012 at 5:55pm
Stick around and you'll learn- we harass Pete any chance we get!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2012 at 5:51pm
We don't have to be mean here, TR.
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