BAD BAD day - HELP |
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ny_nautique
Platinum Member Joined: June-01-2011 Location: Albany NY Status: Offline Points: 1215 |
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Posted: May-20-2014 at 10:54pm |
You'd get a better price and more HP out of a set of GT40p heads.
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- Jeff
1999 Ski Nautique |
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newguy1986
Senior Member Joined: April-08-2011 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Fellas,
Update - Took the whole thing apart again down to the block. Took the heads to a machine shop to find out that both had cracks.... this would explain the water in the oil problem. Before you all rake me over the coals yes I know I should have had them checked the first time I had them off - lesson learned. no real harm done other than the gaskets I get to re buy now. The machine shop had some GT - 40 head castings ready for a rebuild so I am going that route. charging 700 for the pair rebuilt and ready to roll Question - rocker arms - use the ones i have? Question - push rods - any difference here? do I need a different length? Question - any thing else about switching to a GT 40 head I need to know? Thanks |
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1986sn 2001
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newguy1986
Senior Member Joined: April-08-2011 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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I have a tester and can do a compression test... honestly just didnt think to do it after the fact
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1986sn 2001
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Stop wasting time and fluids and do a compression test... that last batch of oil would have bought you a decent compression tester at the local sears.
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newguy1986
Senior Member Joined: April-08-2011 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Actually I didnt. I reassembled and put pil and filter on. Then started it. It started up fine. and I ran it up to 160 temp. the temp held there.
then I drained the oil and found it to me milky. Thats where I am right now. Plan today is to bring the boat back to my house and put 1 quart of transmission fluid and the rest oil. and new filter (do you think i need to put a new filter in it if im going to drain immediately after anyway) after that I will drain it again and add oil. Thoughts? |
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1986sn 2001
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Did you do what this smart(a$$) guy suggested? If you don’t have good compression in all 8 then you can stop messing around looking for external manifold type leaks and just start tearing it apart, if you do then it is back to checking the manifolds… |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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If exhaust manifolds have internal cracks in the water jackets, they will leak water into the cylinder(s) if they are full of water.
There is no problem "forcing" water into the engine with a hose, there is no way water will get anywhere it doesnt belong unless you have a broken component (like an exhaust manifold, gasket, etc) but the same failure will occur once the engine is running anyways. Of course, forcing water into the engine doesnt allow you to test the cooling system properly (if that is your goal), but it works just fine to run the boat on land. |
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newguy1986
Senior Member Joined: April-08-2011 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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No i am letting her pull her own water. Basic bucket method. I have concerns with the water hose direct connection because with all that water just flowing and the motor not started I dont think its a great idea.
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1986sn 2001
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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When you fire it up, are you letting the motor pull it's own cooling water or are is there some sort of fake-a-lake type deal putting positive pressure on the cooling system?
The reason I asked, is a while back on another thread JoeinNY described a scenario where cooling water can be let into cylinders that haven't started firing yet, if the exhaust manifolds are questionable. I'll have to dig that up to remember the exact science behind it, but just throwing it out there. |
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newguy1986
Senior Member Joined: April-08-2011 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Ok sounds like I have a plan forward. The transmission fluid idea came from my cousin who is a master mechanic. said it has worked well in the past. no issues.
Looks like all is not lost!! I will update when I get back to the boat. Working like crazy lately. I hope several oil changes works which in my mind should the more and more thought I put into it all. The cousin has done it with some pretty bad truck motors |
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1986sn 2001
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Hey Andrew, I skimmed back over this thread. I don't remember how carefully you removed the water from the oil last time, did you do a couple of oil changes? Milkshake oil is persistent, can be hard to get rid of. I don't like the tranny fluid idea, prefer you use an engine flush product or 2 quarts of diesel fuel, diesel cuts the milkshake very effectively but only run at under 1,000 rpm for maybe 5 minutes, no more, then need a few more oil changes. Maybe tranny fluid works, I just don't have experience with it.
I hope it's just leftover water. In reading, I don't see if you ever had the intake checked for cracks, and not sure if you addressed the exhaust side at all. If you see the water again you'll have to go there. I know how frustrating this whole process has been but there's only a couple of places water can get in through. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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In the past 30 years, 2 or maybe 3 times over the years for some unknown reason we've sucked water into the oil on a 351 Waukesha/PCM. Every time it's happened the boat was kept out overnight in the driveway and we can't help but to think sabotage. Never replaced anything, no heads, no gaskets. 3000+ hours and no problem but I do recall it took quite a while to get the oil clean, several changes, run for 7 minutes or so then drain. The last time it happened we thought surely a problem, took it to Correct Craft, all has checked out fine. Hopefully you just need to flush a few more times. Idk about the tranny fluid, I'd get another opinion on that.
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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I had a similar experience and mine couldn't be fixed never could find exactly where water was entering but suspected intake to head water jackets.
I ended up new motor 90hp increase to 350 hp and I've been a happy boatrr since but had to cough up the big bucks. |
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This is the life
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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Sorry it turned out this way
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This is the life
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newguy1986
Senior Member Joined: April-08-2011 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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My plan after talking with several buddies is to drain completely what I have in there now ( tilted trailer to try and get as much out) then fill with 2 quarts of transmission fluid and 3 quarts oil and idle it to temp again. then repeat this with oil only a couple times.
I think it has residual water in the oil pan and on components that needs to be flushed out. no problems starting at all today just bad oil... maybe you all have lost interest but im still working at it. sorry for the dull thread. |
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1986sn 2001
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newguy1986
Senior Member Joined: April-08-2011 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Well all,
I fired up the boat again and got it to 160 to warm up the oil to drain and change It looks horrible. looks like I havent solved the problem at all. I dont know where the water is coming from but I guess I have either the same issue or a new one.. Any thoughts? Im feeling pretty bad about this whole situation. any questions you all want answered to help better see what I have done shoot them to me |
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1986sn 2001
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Didn't get to watch but I hope everything works out
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newguy1986
Senior Member Joined: April-08-2011 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Well boys she shows life.
I haven't posted in a while but Saturday I put the heads, intake etc etc all back together and with some help from a friend got the boat to start and run. It idles fine and sounds pretty good. Next step is to time it, then check the oil for the original problem. Planning on changing it a couple times to clean out the oil plan. Any thoughts? I have a water leak between the t stat housing and the intake. Only gasket I didn't replace.... I'll get that on do order and should be a quick fix. http://youtu.be/W-MBVyYWHn0 |
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1986sn 2001
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newguy1986
Senior Member Joined: April-08-2011 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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My bad guys. I found the manual. I thought I had downloaded everything that the reference section had a while back and I couldnt find anything on it last night... went there just now and they have a 350 page manual right there...
stupid me... disregard dumb question about the torque |
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1986sn 2001
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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+1 on that book or you could go into the reference section and getting the spec's in one of the PCM manuals
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flipflop
Senior Member Joined: June-15-2010 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 187 |
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I'm sure some will chime in shortly, but I know this is a recommended book for reference.
small block |
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newguy1986
Senior Member Joined: April-08-2011 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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ok so I got the Fel pro package today...
Im ready to re assemble this thing now. This is obviously the hard part for a newguy! So first thing I need is any advice you guys have that have done this and also a torque spec for all the components that will need to go back on. Hope you guys chime in and help with any tips or tricks or things yall found out after the fact |
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1986sn 2001
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newguy1986
Senior Member Joined: April-08-2011 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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thanks TRBenj for the help. Im always greatful
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1986sn 2001
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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The rear port is covered, which forces water up and over the riser instead of it all going out the lower one.
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newguy1986
Senior Member Joined: April-08-2011 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Hey guys,
I am trying to figure out if I ordered the correct gasket and I keep second guessing myself. I am questioning the riser gasket (square gasket between exhaust manifold and exhaust riser) the ones i ordered match up perfect but one port is covered . http://www.marineengine.com/newparts/part_details.php?pnum=SIE18-8504 can some one confirm if this is correct? |
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1986sn 2001
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Seems like a lot of money must be because of the marine label. For what it is worth I used Felpro automotive gaskets for years with no problem. I have seen marine head gaskets for 30 ea on other sites, 90 more for all other the gaskets in that kit that are nothing special.
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newguy1986
Senior Member Joined: April-08-2011 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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looking at ordering the Fel-pro 17261 gasket kit from summit... can any one confirm? also any place better to purchase it?
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1986sn 2001
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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Use only marine parts and be really careful setting the intake to be sure it's sealed
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This is the life
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newguy1986
Senior Member Joined: April-08-2011 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Weel guys im going to get a gasket set and put the boat back as you all have advised.
I have been cleaning up all the sealing surfaces which is taking some time but im getting them smooth. any advice on that? and also I have been looking at the summit racing fel pro gaskets and it seems there are multiple options. Whats the best buy for this application? |
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1986sn 2001
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Possibly a cooling circuit test (engine isolated) at 15 PSI would be worthwhile. I think you can rent a radiator pressure tester from auto part store that would do this.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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