Denver shooting ....

A gunsmith and firearms dealer once told me that an "armed society is a polite society." I grew up 45 minutes south of Boston. I've had a car I was riding in shot at because we had no money when someone tried to hold us up. I had a childhood friend killed execution style after being car jacked by a 16 year old. I've witnessed drive by shootings. All of this in a liberal state that has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. All of these things coming from illegal weapons. I've also known a guy that got the crap kicked out of him by a bouncer, who happened to be the father of his ex's child. He went to this guy's place of business(a strip bar) killed the guy, his manager, took everyone hostage, shot up a police car then committed suicide. All because of jealousy and insecurity. This was done with a legal weapon he jumped through hoops to own. I feel that too much restriction creates a void in the ranks of gun owners. Only criminals and those willing to commit lots of time and money into being "qualified" to own one. Now I live in Vermont, another very liberal state, where gun ownership is much less restrictive. Anyone who can legally own a pistol can carry it concealed. You never hear of random shootings, car jacking, hostage situations or the like. Someone who pulls a gun around here has no idea who else around them is carrying. Now does this kind of thing work everywhere in the country? No way, but that is why firearm ownership should be controlled at a state level and minimally at the federal level. What works here in rural Vermont won't work everywhere but it should be for the people living wherever they happen to live to decide!

I apologize Matt if you thought my post was directed towards you. I understand perfectly what you typed and was not trying to misquote anything. I " short quoted" your statement because that was the part of the statement that i was addressing. My intention was to answer, IMO, that part of your statement, not to seperate it from the rest of your post and make it look like you intended it to have a different meaning.

I am curious tho, you stated above that you have never and will never pick up a gun as they "are not for you". If you dont mind me asking, I'm wondering how you can make a statement like that based on zero experience. I could see your point if you had shot a weapon and didn't enjoy it, but thats like saying wakesurfing is not for you if you have never tried it. Not trying to be nosey, just curious and if that feeling is based on a previous tragedy in your life I understand if you dont feel the need to explain.

Mike

05 210 wrote: MattB wrote: Are further restrictions on gun ownership the solution?     Absolutely not. This has nothing to do with icky guns and everything to do with an unstable person. The biggest cities in the country have some of the most strict gun laws and the worst crime. . People do this crap because it makes the news and they gain world wide attention.      Personally, i think it should be mandatory for everyone who can legally own a gun to have one for home defense and they should be trained to use it. People who are uncomfortable around guns are so because they have never been properly introduced to them. There is zero reason for anyone to be afraid of guns or responsible gun owners. The only way crime will decrease is if the criminals are the one's who are afraid.

Well spoken Mike! I'm with you on this.
Belgium has enormous gun restrictions. The basic rule is: we are not allowed to have a gun... Getting a permit is very hard. And when you get a permit, it is only to be able to own a gun, tranport it to your gun club (ammo and weapon in seperate cases) where you must be member in order to get your permit. Or you must be certified member of a hunting club in order to own a hunting rifle.

In my VERY VERY humble opinion is that they weakened the reponsible law obiding citizens and strengthen the criminals in this country... But hey, that's just me

Let us not forget that this was a horrible act committed by a total nut job that deserves all the torment that life can throw at him for the rest of his miserable days.

The gun ownership and gun culture in the US is very very different from that of the UK but these senseless acts can and do happen the world over.
Despite being brought up in the countryside where hunting/shooting is a normal part of daily life I have never and would never pick up a gun for any reason, I am not anti guns but they are just not for me.

I don't believe in knee-jerk reactions for anything where laws are changed and further restrictions are imposed because there is no legislation for nut jobs, you guys that feel comfortable using and owning guns should be allowed to continue doing so as is your right.

The tragedy is making the prime time headlines over here in the UK so I am sure everyone is sending their prayers to everyone affected.

No Buck fever there. Out numbered and guned and he hit them both before they got off a shot. That is a crime deterrent. Big

agreed

eric lavine wrote: odds are in his favor so hit the ground lol, i really dont want to stand up in a theater with a guy that is outgunned than you and is already shooting people, and when you do stand to take the shot which you better be a damn good shooter, that you dont hesitate. it probably took him under 45 seconds to kill these people so time is also not on your side....

As someone who often carries a .380 or a .45... I can't agree more with Eric on this. An AR-15 with a 100 round magazine spitting out bullets traveling 4 times the speed of sound as fast as a crazy guy can pull the trigger. I'm cowering, hiding,covering up loved ones and hoping for the best.

I heard about the shootings via the headlines but that is about it. I've chosen to not read about all the doom and gloom because whats the point? What is it about Colorado that seems to bring out this senseless mass killings? Columbine, now this? I know it's just a coincidence but......   Very tragic and sad that this has happened yet again. I wonder if theaters will put the Kabash on fans coming dressed up in costume at Midnight showings to "prevent" this from happening again and how long will it take before someone files a lawsuit against the theater or makers of the movie for not preventing this from happening. You wait it'll happen.

Tragic story indeed and my thoughts and prayers go out to the victims, their families, and all those patrons who will be scarred for life.

eric lavine wrote: you know what buck fever is? you guy's aint shootin nobody, this guy contemplated for months to get the balls to do this, anybody can carry a gun, but using it is a different story

Ever heard of trophy bucks that get mounted? People might get buck fever, but they can still perform. It's called training and preparation. I'd at least want the chance to defend myself and others if some moron tried to do this.

I'd like to think that I'd be willing and able to perform if my life and my loved ones lives are on the line.

you know what buck fever is? you guy's aint shootin nobody, this guy contemplated for months to get the balls to do this, anybody can carry a gun, but using it is a different story

its one thing to own a gun, its another to aim it on another human and pull the trigger, only 15% of vietnam vets could squeeze one off with a man in his sights, the rest was random shootings...if you ever watch clips, the gun is at their sides or they are just spraying....so chances are pretty damn good that if you are in a theater and you hear shooting, your hitting the floor and shaking and the gun will stay holstered.....I would bet money, there was at least 1 ccw in that audience, and he *************** his pants

GlassSeeker wrote: we simulated a hostage situation at 50 yards targets had a balloon taped by the head of the silouette, the balloon being the head of the hostage taker, with the object being a popped balloon with no holes in the poor hostage silouette.

50 yards! With a 3.5" barrel? Hell, I qualify expert and could seldom make that shot! They actually simulate that with service pistols? Hats off to you!

this story is the type of thing the media will persecute the gun owners . it is a tragedy for all involved but .. a person like this? he would have found a way to do this without a gun be it a gallon bucket of gas or other horrendous weapon.. I know people feel that a handgun carrier in that place could have either wounded him enough to only make him more out of his mind ( if that was possible) or that he was wearing a vest .(even a 38 spec will pause him long enough to get at him.   i wish there were more people (good citizens) armed

You need a head shot on the guy, in some training I was in we simulated a hostage situation at 50 yards targets had a balloon taped by the head of the silouette, the balloon being the head of the hostage taker, with the object being a popped balloon with no holes in the poor hostage silouette. I stepped up and first shot of the .40 cal Glock 22 popped the balloon. Most of the other veteran LE officers fired multiple rounds never hitting the balloon, they "killed" the hostage, some shot 3 15 round mags and never hit the balloon.

it would have taken a very good shot to drop the guy but in the commotion I think someone well trained might have been able to stop him.

If someone wants to kill you they are going to do it because they know how and when its going to happen. Action beats reaction.

Crazy folks will do crazy stuff, always have always will.

mrwillya wrote: If more people exercised their right to carry a firearm, I believe this could have been prevented. Now if only 3 or 4 people were carrying in a crowd of 200 (guesstimate) then it would have made little to no difference (depending on the seating of the CCW individual). But if a higher percentage of people carried (say 25%), the likely hood of someone sitting towards the front with a clear shot is greatly elevated. My other thought is, this guy may have thought twice about doing this if he knew that there were 50 armed individuals were sitting in there. I already have my CCW permit, but don't carry often. After this I'll be picking up my pocket pistol (Micro Eagle) and doing my part in being able to fight back with terrible people like this.

My thoughts exactly. If everyone would carry a weapon NOT concealed out in the open cowardly thugs just might think twice before trying to grab someones purse or hi jack someones car. In reality if there were 5 patrons in that theater with the training needed to carry a firearm, This maniac would not have stood a chance.
I carry everywhere i go, boating, to the movies, mall even to get a loaf of bread.THIS happened only a few miles from my house at a wal-mart my wife and i frequently visit. this news reporter makes light of this but what she didnt mention is the shots fired and the gun shot victim taken to the hospital with a gun shot wound. Im sure that these ignorant fools that made this ruckus would have less likely been apt to do this if there were more carriers. What will you do when they decide to come to your home instead of Wal mart