Advice buying engine stand

Garys got it, use black rtv at the corners of the cork / rubber   gaskets. I use some stuff called "HI Tack" on the cork gaskets to
hold them in place.    

gR@HaM wrote: All pieces look to connect together nicely to make a full seal, just to confirm I should apply the black RTV in moderation all the way around, i.e on top and bottom of both cork pieces and all 3 of the rubber U-seals?

I would not that stuff is messy and if you ever have to remove it again you'll be sorry. The rubber gets nothing but where the rubber and the cork meet you can put RTV in that area. You could use some kind of contact cement just to hold the cork side rail pieces in place so it don't move around on you while you put the pan back in place. Give me a bit I'll see what they say in my Ford book ---

uk1979 wrote: gR@HaM wrote: Thanks Roger, I like your thinking - that will definitely be my next option if unable to do it with engine on the crane. Its (not so) funny you mention marking the timing before removing the dizzy, this is my first carbed engine project.. I didnt realise this when removing the dizzy and have since turned the engine over on the crank to get the harmonic balancer off. I understand that the balancer has an indicator for TDC, but presumably there is more than one rotation of the crank to get this. Is it fairly straight forward to set timing on these engines? I know with the landrover I needed to line up the timing marks on the flywheel against the cam sprocket and crank - is it fairly similar for the Ford V8? Graham,give this a go,its old school but works...... I’m more of a Chevy man here......but i do have a few old ford V8 here....have a look at the engine tag if it’s there or inlet manifold and see if it has the firing order cast in it for RR engine if not it’s on the site, just do a search. Once you know the first cylinder to fire bring it up to 8-10 BTDC on compression/firing stroke(try not to back the crank back from TDC or more as there may be slack in the old timing gear/chain and taking the rocker cover off that side helps to see both valves are shut) read from your new harmonic balancer off the newly fitted timing cover/marker. Hold the dizzy and find the plug lead for the first cylinder firing order.....with the cap on mark the lower body with a sharpie pen centre of the contact by eye. Keeping the drive clean and cap now off...dip drive gear in oil and slide in keeping the rotor pointing at your mark......do not force but you may need to wiggle the rotor to line up on the cam and then the oil pump, you may have to pull the dizzy to tweak the oil pump round to line up, not sure of the drive size on 351 but my old ford stuff is ¼ hex. Once the dizzy is down fully, check you timing marks are still right and the rotor is pointing at your mark on the dizzy and then clamp down. This will get her running for you to tweak the dizzy body when the engine is running.

Perfect, this is just the information I need - thanks.
It will probably be another month until I'm able to look at getting the engine running, still have plenty to do but am getting closer each day!

I cut the 2 end bolt holes in the gasket at the bottom to make an up side down U shape(some gaskeks come that way) and slip the exhaust gasket in between the manifold & head. It stays put while I start the bolts, then remove the studs.

Waterdog wrote:    Exhaust manifolds are easier with help.    - BUT -    If your alone buy 2 6inch 3/8 bolts and cut the heads off pull 2 bolts out and replace them with your home made studs. Makes it easy to R&R the exhaust manifolds.

Good idea! If I ever have to do this again, this will be my course of action.

gR@HaM wrote: Strange that I actually had no problems removing the manifolds! Other than one of the bolts that needed drilling out. I'm taking them in to work for sand blasting and coating tomorrow they shall soon be like new!!

Getting them off isn't the problem. It's getting them on. You use 2 hands to hold the manifold in the right place...then with your third hand, you hold the steel gasket in place and with your fourth hand, you screw the first bolt in place. Sounds simple enough.... The stud approach above sounds like a winner though.

Getting the dizzy lined back up is no problem, I took mine out many times before I learned to set it at TDC and mark it first. Rogers plan works just fine for getting it back together and running. Not a big issue on a DD, but I like having a remote starter so I can adjust things easily while I crank it over.

Even PCM uses dabs of silicon on the gaskets in places, it was very noticeable when I was tearing my motor apart.   

gR@HaM wrote: Thanks Roger, I like your thinking - that will definitely be my next option if unable to do it with engine on the crane. Its (not so) funny you mention marking the timing before removing the dizzy, this is my first carbed engine project.. I didnt realise this when removing the dizzy and have since turned the engine over on the crank to get the harmonic balancer off. I understand that the balancer has an indicator for TDC, but presumably there is more than one rotation of the crank to get this. Is it fairly straight forward to set timing on these engines? I know with the landrover I needed to line up the timing marks on the flywheel against the cam sprocket and crank - is it fairly similar for the Ford V8?

Graham,give this a go,its old school but works......

I’m more of a Chevy man here......but i do have a few old ford V8 here....have a look at the engine tag if it’s there or inlet manifold and see if it has the firing order cast in it for RR engine if not it’s on the site, just do a search.
Once you know the first cylinder to fire bring it up to 8-10 BTDC on compression/firing stroke(try not to back the crank back from TDC or more as there may be slack in the old timing gear/chain and taking the rocker cover off that side helps to see both valves are shut) read from your new harmonic balancer off the newly fitted timing cover/marker.
Hold the dizzy and find the plug lead for the first cylinder firing order.....with the cap on mark the lower body with a sharpie pen centre of the contact by eye.
Keeping the drive clean and cap now off...dip drive gear in oil and slide in keeping the rotor pointing at your mark......do not force but you may need to wiggle the rotor to line up on the cam and then the oil pump, you may have to pull the dizzy to tweak the oil pump round to line up, not sure of the drive size on 351 but my old ford stuff is ¼ hex.
Once the dizzy is down fully, check you timing marks are still right and the rotor is pointing at your mark on the dizzy and then clamp down.
This will get her running for you to tweak the dizzy body when the engine is running.

If plan A doesn’t work for you and plan B comes into play.....to roll a engine on tyres, have the engine hanging across the crane legs, tie off a strap/rope to the exhaust closes to the crane and lay over the engine and down under the sump/pan....lower engine onto tyres and hook up strap/rope to crane and slowly lift and steady as you flip, reverse this to bring it back up when finished.
Also check if you have the breather on the trans and taped up well before you flip.....my bad.   

If you do flip or change bearings it is best to prime the oil pump by spinning it with oil in the engine with a battery drill and a long shaft before you fit the dizzy back.....don’t use ¼ socket drive tools as they can get stuck inside or damage the cam gear.   

Hey Graham, What are you using silicone for? I would try and cut a gasket from rubber or cork or some other gasket material if I couldn't get my hands on a factory gasket.   Silicone has it's uses, but I've never had great luck with it on oil gasket surfaces. It tends to leak again pretty quickly, and you have to be really quick about getting the parts together before the silicone "skins".

just my .02, I know being outside the US requires special creativity at times, so I understand using a method that maybe not Ideal, but you gotta make it work

Strange that I actually had no problems removing the manifolds! Other than one of the bolts that needed drilling out. I'm taking them in to work for sand blasting and coating tomorrow they shall soon be like new!!

I pulled the exhaust manifolds in my boat once. I NEVER want to do that crap again!! If you have a helper, it's no big deal. If you're doing it by yourself, forget about it.

backfoot100 wrote: Graham, Another dilemma that you have is that depending on how many hours are on the engine and you have to replace the oil pan gasket anyway, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to put fresh bearings and crank seals in it. Then if your doing that, you might as well put a fresh oil pump in it too. Total cost for all that would probably be under $200 (maybe a little in the UK) and you're good for a long, long time. Of course to do all that would pretty much require a stand then.

I did something like this over the winter. I had the engine out for other work and decided to fix an oil leak while it was out. I figured it needed new gaskets, rear seal, and I might as well replace the bearings. You quickly get into "you might as well replace this/that while you're in there". First it was oil pump, fuel pump, and cam bearings. Then I hear I should get the block cleaned, crankshaft turned or just a new crank altogether, fresh bore, and new pistons and rings. Well since you've done all that, you should machine the heads and block to ensure they haven't warped and a new cam will really wake up that engine...etc. etc. etc.

You always have to draw the line somewhere and if the engine currently runs fine and has good compression, my vote is fix what's wrong because these engines are not that difficult to pull.

On a side note, I bought the 4 leg harbor freight engine stand to do all my work and it's been good. Initially, I put my engine on the stand without pulling the flywheel or damper plate. If all you're doing is the oil pan, I would highly recommend NOT using the stand. Rotating the engine with the heads and manifolds attached is really hard because the engine is so top heavy.

You could go red neck....lift the engine and trans out the boat onto some old tyres,take off carb/dizzy(mark timing mark first) and anything that can brake off,then roll over onto more tyres and prop up to work on,I think you have new rocker covers if the old get a dent in...make sure the trans oil fill plug is in tight or your be changing the oil as well.

Doing the gasket with engine hanging sounds perfect!!
This will save me buying a new stand, and also tackling the problem of working out how to move the engine over a gravel track to the back of my house!
Would it be worth removing the tranny and bell housing before lifting the engine?
Very true point about getting carried away with this project also, in a couple of weeks I will have owned this boat for a year - and have spend a crazy amount of time to get it fit for the water, but I need to find a point to stop working on it and start enjoying it!!

Eddie, I was just trying to give him a good reason to stop, I'm in the middle of a project that could grow until I could easily buy a SAN if I do everything I want. Lol

Once you start tearing into the motor there are so many things that you 'might as well do while you have the opportunity'. You came get very far if it never comes of the chain. If I had of left mine in the boat for the cam change I wouldn't be tempted to rebuild it as as a 409, change the carpet or add Sea Dek, switch to an ARE shaft, buy a new prop, I could go on and on.