Moved from craigs list

John I never saw the pictures .I was just thinking of all the things in my life that i have said and have been said to me in a group of friends. I understand how things can be taken to heart .

Did you even see the photo I posted John?? Derogatory in what way?? On a weekday at 11am, is a 13yr old in school or posting on CCFan?? Quite frankly, for you to even insinuate my daughter would post such a remark is an insult.

I have made NO COMMENTS other then in this thread, so how does that even correlate to what Seeker just said??

its hard to be an adult and still think farting is funny and other bodily noises and with that comes what some adults see as slurs. for me i would never mean anything by them they just come out when your ribbing each other. especially people you have known forever . just because we say things about the size or lack of their parts doesnt mean we ever mean it or think it . its hard to be that mature and still love boats.

i have been following this thread, and had no intention of contributing to it when it was on the craigslist thread, and I had even less intention of jumping in when it moved over here. But in my opinion, this has gotten out of hand.

I know both Kevin and Chris personally, and I'll go on record defending them and saying that I don't believe they meant anything hurtful to anyone. End of story. The way I met them is because I go to CCFan reunions and events, and both of those guys are just good people. We poke fun at them online because they are fantastic guys who can take a little ridicule. Anyone who is opposed to attending such an event is doing yourself a disservice.

Bakchose, let me say that to be openly gay, in any arena, whether its here, or anywhere else; good for you, that takes a tremendous amount of courage, and I don't care what anybody else says on this site, but I support you. That may not mean much coming from a stranger, but take it for what its worth. As a person who owns a correct craft, I welcome the opportunity at any point to hang out, and go for a ride on your boat, because that's something we have in common.

I haven't had the opportunity to meet Jamin (Hansel) in person, but I hope that in future I get to. However, I think you're in the wrong here. Wrong to defend a person who has different beliefs than others on the site? No. Wrong to attack people you think are objectifying a minority? In my opinion, yes.

This entire dialogue is idiotic. I'm not putting down anyone's beliefs, everyone is welcome to their own; but nobody here is actually being attacked. If I'm wrong, and CQ or Hollywood or anyone else is using CCFan as a forum to rage against gay people, then someone please correct me, but I don't think that's the case. I've made remarks along the same lines on this site in the past, and none of them were made with malicious intentions, so if anyone is guilty here, I am among the first.

This site is about a group of people with an interest in a certain type of boat. If you came here to have political or sociological arguments take it elsewhere. I came here to meet people with an interest in going skiing on nice boats, if you didn't you're in the wrong place.

Adam

If anyone disagrees with my point of view, or has a problem with that I have to say, please feel free to call me. 44O.552.3465.

I will no longer sit on the sideline and watch the continuation of the pussification of america.

Bret,

I don't want to pour more gas on the fire, but your comment above is exactly what I and others are talking about.

More often than not "***************" is a pejorative term equating femininity with failure/lowered status. Whether you realize it or not some people, men and women, read or hear that kind of language and won't feel very comfortable around you or welcomed by you.

You could have just said "weakening", but instead you chose an indirect route calling something weak or inferior by calling it feminine (I am assuming here when you refer to "pussification" you don't mean that America is turning into a bunch of cats. If that is the case I apologize).

You don't have the right to use hurtful language and then expect the very people at whom it is directed to be okay with it.

Maybe you've never thought much about how subtle use of language influences both how people view you AND how you think about the world. I know I never gave it a thought until friends and mentors pointed out some of my own hurtful words.

Just something to think about... Hope you are having a great weekend.

Haha Steve,

It is only a tactic to delay other Saturday afternoon computer work...

Just don't ask me to post a photo/video. Then I am toast!

I could not imagine any person attending ANY reunion and coming away feeling isolated, left out or discriminated against in any way. It is a great group of people, diverse yes, but all good.

Life is tough and one thing I learned with a last name like mine is if you let them know it gets to you it's only gonna make things worse.

The idea I've been trying to convey is that of course a white, straight, man feels welcome on CCFan. Furthermore, being part of a minority is not at all comparable to having a last name that some people might crack jokes about (or as I've noted before owning a certain type of car, voting a certain way, etc.).

Nearly everybody on CCFan is part of the "dominant culture", meaning that we have rights and privileges that people of other races, sexual orientations, and genders (among a host of other things) don't. It is likely that as long as you live in the US you'll never fully understand the experiences of minorities. The best you can hope for is to learn empathy, or maybe travel to places where you are the minority and experience it first hand. Of course you can just take a little "vacation" in minority-land, you don't have to stay there like they have to their entire lives.

Yeah, sometimes a thicker skin is needed. But more often than not it is just telling people to deal with a problem you've created.

Amen Timmer. I find it odd that some people's view of protecting free speech and controlling censorship only applies until they see/hear something they don't agree with and then it is a problem. Hypocritical.

I'm not sure exactly what I and other people have don't to be called "hypocritical." I've seen little censorship or infringement on free speech. What I have seen is people making other people feel bad and then telling the victim that it is their fault/problem. As Steve put very nicely you are free to say whatever you want, but you also have to live with the consequences.

If you participate in or encourage minority bashing on CCFan that turns people away then own up to your role in creating a hostile environment to outsiders. Some see the minorities as being "overly sensitive." More often it is the majority being overly insensitive.

Is "childish humor" worth making CCFan a less friendly place? If you want this community and the reunions to be as diverse as you claim then take steps in that direction.

Thanks to everybody that has shared on this thread. CCFan is a great place. Let's keep making it better. I hope to meet some of you at Green Lake this summer.

Amen Timmer. I find it odd that some people's view of protecting free speech and controlling censorship only applies until they see/hear something they don't agree with and then it is a problem. Hypocritical.

quinner wrote: I could not imagine any person attending ANY reunion and coming away feeling isolated, left out or discriminated against in any way. It is a great group of people, diverse yes, but all good. Get over it, we are all different with the same interest, a common bond, everything after that really does not matter.

Thanks for the brief and what I feel is a true statement.

Well Jamin, I guess we'll just have to disagree. I'll leave it at that.

I wasn't going to entertain this thread. However after reading Hansel's pm I decided to see what was being said. The reason why I spoke up was because what was going on in a thread that is devoted to "OMG there is a 1965 Mustang Correct Craft for $800.00 in Ohio" turned into the equivalent of calling each other the "N" word then posting a picture of your self covered in shoe polish with the caption "Look at the Monkey". different minority, same effect. If that happened I would have spoke up also. Did anyone mean it? I would hope not, but no one seems to see it, or is willing to admit they went to far, or oppologize. Instead it was blaimed on me. Fine, I can take it. But to heckle me for stating that this is the exact reason why I've shied away from the reunions. Hello, you've established that I'm a second rate citizen and my opions and feeling aren't valid. That is so welcoming.

Thanks Hansel and the others who have supported my speaking up. It is sad that a website devoted to people who love correct crafts has turned into "No we didn't offend the gay guy. He's just overly sensitive"

I could not imagine any person attending ANY reunion and coming away feeling isolated, left out or discriminated against in any way. It is a great group of people, diverse yes, but all good.

Get over it, we are all different with the same interest, a common bond, everything after that really does not matter.

Can't wait to meet Bret, and hopefully Hansel one day too.

Every John, George, Ralph, harry, etc. etc is welcome!

Dude, it was CHILDISH HUMOR.

That for me pretty much sums it up right there. When you make a childish joke and somebody near you tells you that they were offended you can...

1. Apologize, tell them you are sorry and that it won't happen again.
2. Just shut your mouth.
3. Blame them for being overly sensitive or "intolerant" to your view.

I think most CCFans do #2. Some feel the need to go the route of #3. Nobody apparently does #1 even though I bet many of us would take that route if this happened in person.

...one person wanting accommodation and acceptance for who they are being offended, by someone else just being who they are...

If a group of internet strangers are making fun of who you are, and I mean who you are not what you believe, where you work, what kind of car you drive, how much money you make, I mean who you are biologically I bet you'd take offense to that and I'd support you if you felt unwelcome by such a group.

I've seen much worse banter on political orientation, or toyotas.

CCFans are good people. Sometimes bad things slip out, it happens. When people spew racist things (as I have sadly seen too many times) others stand up and tell them they are wrong. But apparently nobody here is willing to stand up for the "homos" and "queers" since I guess their innate sexuality is equal to somebody's political opinion or what kind of car they drive(!?).

That is wrong. I am not going to tolerate it and you shouldn't either.

Nothing patently offensive was said or suggested. Get.....over......it. Victim???? of what?

A member of this community said they were offended, apparently enough to not want to attend reunions that they otherwise would. That makes it offensive. I'd be interested to see what your gay family members have to say about groups of strangers that makes jokes at their expense. You are free to choose option #3, but don't pretend like you didn't just pile on insult to injury.

...after the bell rung andthe round was over.

I'd be willing to bet that in fact it is replies like, "Get over it" that cause people to stay away from reunions more than any silly gay jokes between Kevin and Chris. The rapid defense of homophobia says a lot more about the character of some CCFans than any offhand joke between friends ever will.

Steve, I saw all the original posts before they were edited. There was nothing offensive. My "get over it" comment was directed to Hansel who seemed to think it was a good idea to jump into the ring swinging after the bell rung and the round was over.

Ya, I think in the court of sexual orientation offenses, "insulted on internet boat forum" ranks pretty low. I've seen much worse banter on political orientation, or toyotas.