MSD Marine distributor

Duane in Indy wrote: I had a stumble when I would give it hard throttle from idle. Rebuilt carb knowing it was the accelerator pump. Hmm, same stumble. Even switched to another carb I had. Same stumble. Hmm again. Check timing and found that initial was OK but the total timing was not consistent. It would either not come in or come in late. Went to MSD dizzy and it was fixed. Had to replace gear with a new one as stated before. Three wire hook up was a breeze. One to coil, one to ground, and one to key 12 volt hot. Total advance is adjustable also. One can argue points or EI all they want but try to buy a new internal combustion engine with points. Good luck with that. Everybody changed over for a reason. (Am not a fan of EI conversion modules that you drop into a points dizzy. They tend to be flakey) This should open a can of worms.

Hey Duane, that is exactly what I am thinking.

Ken,
Good one!! My stomach muscles are sore from my laughing!

seacamper wrote: I am getting a bit worn out tweaking the carb. I will go through it again. Sigh.

Just curious if this exercise of tweaking involves your ear and gut feel, or are you using a vacuum gauge, timing light etc.?      If you are using the appropriate tools, it seems like you can only tweak and check so many times before you're having an exercise in futility, and I totally get your frustration with that.   If you are using your subjective senses to get this right, you could be in for a long ride.   I guess what I am getting at is that the right tools make a huge difference in getting an accurate result/reading.    A timing light with dwell, offset, rpm, etc. is a great help for finding ignition problems, carb issues are harder to nail down, but a vacuum gauge makes the idle adjustment much easier.      

Do you have an idle vacuum reading?
What is your timing set to at Idle (rpm?)
What is your total timing @ 3000 RPM
How is your accelerator pump adjustment?   

Pertonix module failures in the lead by far, like a log scale.

Prestolite and Mallory hardly any.

Duane in Indy wrote: (Am not a fan of EI conversion modules that you drop into a points dizzy. They tend to be flakey) This should open a can of worms.

I agree completely. Conversions have been somewhat of issue for several here but a new electronic dizzy is the cats nuts.

I know that Tom has done numerous carbs, timing, tuning and messing around with anything and everything. A new dizzy certainly couldn't hurt.

I had a stumble when I would give it hard throttle from idle. Rebuilt carb knowing it was the accelerator pump. Hmm, same stumble. Even switched to another carb I had. Same stumble. Hmm again. Check timing and found that initial was OK but the total timing was not consistent. It would either not come in or come in late. Went to MSD dizzy and it was fixed. Had to replace gear with a new one as stated before. Three wire hook up was a breeze. One to coil, one to ground, and one to key 12 volt hot. Total advance is adjustable also. One can argue points or EI all they want but try to buy a new internal combustion engine with points. Good luck with that. Everybody changed over for a reason.

(Am not a fan of EI conversion modules that you drop into a points dizzy. They tend to be flakey)
This should open a can of worms.

TRBenj wrote: First of all, I'm not convinced the dizzy/points are your source of hesitation out of the hole. That is more likely to be a fuel issue from my experience... And I know of many points boats that jump out of the water.

I think the same thing as TRB on this but it sounds like you want a new distributor. May not help but it can't hurt.

KENO wrote: seacamper wrote: So Eddie, I STILL have the minor stumble under a heavy load in the 75 SN. I have got to think that it is the distributor/points at this point, and after checking compression, timing, dwell, etc, I am thinking it is weak spark induced by 40+ year old distributor/weights/springs/moving parts. What do you think about this upgrade? MSD Hi I'm not Eddie (he's better looking than me ) but if you read back thru this thread and look at your link, you'll see that it has the wrong gear for a 351 Windsor. It's got a gear for a LH rotation 351w/429/460 Ford. You would need a gear for a RH rotation 351 Windsor. Pretty sure MSD doesn't make one of them You'll probably have a few people telling you to get a DUI distributor cause they think it's the best thing since sliced bread and then Pete will jump in and make a point about keeping points in it. But anyways,depending on shaft size and mounting hole location in the gears, your old gear might fit and be at the right depth...........or maybe not KenO

Whew, back from a week of vacation and trying to get back into the routine.

+1 on what Ken said.

The MSD would work but you'll need to find a RH gear and MSD doesn't offer one. The good news is that we have this local machine guy that's pretty good whom you also know. I would bet my next paycheck that he can make your old gear fit perfectly on any dizzy you decide to put in. MSD or DUI. That is unless the old gear is damaged in any way.
I'm pretty biased toward the MSD but the DUI is obviously very proven. The only plus I see with the MSD is that the advance curve is completely adjustable to how you and the boat want it. The DUI isn't. I think the MSD would probably not experience the diameter fitment issues that several here have experienced either. If you're willing to be a test mule and knowing we have a good machinist at our disposal, I'd be very willing to help you help you try one out.

That is a bummer about the hesitation. I know you've tried two or three different carbs, a complete tune up and checking over everything else you can think of.

So I am assuming I would order the "351 W 7000 rpm Reverse Rotation" distributor, and it will be a crap shoot on whether it will fit??

DUI

I am interested in "vabration proofing" my distributor.

The DUI Advantage
Virtually Waterproof
Vabration Proof
Fully Electronic
One Wire Hookup
7000 and 10,000 RPM Versions

seacamper wrote: So Eddie, I STILL have the minor stumble under a heavy load in the 75 SN. I have got to think that it is the distributor/points at this point, and after checking compression, timing, dwell, etc, I am thinking it is weak spark induced by 40+ year old distributor/weights/springs/moving parts. What do you think about this upgrade? MSD

Hi

I'm not Eddie (he's better looking than me ) but if you read back thru this thread and look at your link, you'll see that it has the wrong gear for a 351 Windsor.

It's got a gear for a LH rotation 351w/429/460 Ford.

You would need a gear for a RH rotation 351 Windsor. Pretty sure MSD doesn't make one of them

You'll probably have a few people telling you to get a DUI distributor cause they think it's the best thing since sliced bread and then Pete will jump in and make a point about keeping points in it.

KenO

backfoot100 wrote: Your boat runs too good with points. If the distributor ever decides to give up the ghost, we'll talk. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

now this is the kind of engine talk I can understand....

9am saturday morning date?



john

I just talked with MSD tech support and he confirmed what Joe and wholman have stated. Change the gear and the 351C/460 unit would work in the Windsor. I asked if there has ever been discussion about making a Windsor distributor available and he said they ask the question to R&D constantly. The R&D guys must know something we don't. Maybe you Ford guys need to come to your senses and get into bowties

Still would be a nice replacement even if you need to change gears. Definitely worth looking into anyway.

Putting Cleveland heads on a Windsor block (a Clevor) used to be the hot setup before everyone started making aftermarket Windsor heads. The big valves and sewer pipe-sized ports make for a pretty high winding motor. They're not too common nowadays because the Windsor heads have gotten so good it's not worth the extra effort, especially just to use heavy iron castings.

Not sure if any OEMs marinized them, but the Aussies have been doing it. Clevelands are basically as plentiful there as Windsors are here. I know there are some companies that specialize in marine conversion parts for them, such as these:

http://www.kmrolco.com/Price_List.html

http://www.cassellmarine.com.au/c/217788/1/velvet-drive-conversion.html

kytom2 wrote: That's 2 too many for you Jbear!

In John's defence,it's not the number of wires he'd have trouble with, it's what he'd do with that one extra wire after he's spliced up the pair