rear floor access panel |
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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Posted: December-31-2014 at 12:35pm |
Thanks Queerner, I had a bet going you would show up when anal came up.
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Tim D
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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This is what happens with education. I happen to agree with Joel. As long as you are making a new piece, why not follow the higher load rating per the APA specs? |
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Joel, the D in Tim stands for Dikhead, don't mind him he tends to be an azz on here. Thanks for your qualified input!!
BTW, when I was at my sis's place at Thanksgiving I found that new bridge at Red Gate rd on my way home, would be perfect for a BF flyer, LOL Ok, thread jack off |
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SWANY
Senior Member Joined: August-12-2014 Location: batavia Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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LMAO. Well my spelling sucks
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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This talk about wood and anal-igy's is getting too heated.
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SWANY
Senior Member Joined: August-12-2014 Location: batavia Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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I'm glad you figured that out. Tim what's your occupation? And I'm not comparing subfloor to the inspection panel. Making a point grain direction matters. It was an analigy brought up |
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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Wow Swany, you were 4 years old when I bought my Mustang. You got smart quick in your short time on earth. Comparing sub-flooring to this piece of wood behind the dog box is wrong.
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Tim D
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SWANY
Senior Member Joined: August-12-2014 Location: batavia Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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You must have been worried at some point when you put those braces in...
And house subfloor plywood tongue and groove (today's grade) is typically a three ply. The bottom veneer and top run ACROSS/perpendicular to the joists, thats why it can span 16" center. Go ahead and run it the opposite direction keeps guys like me busy Sorry I Didn't Mean to start a heated threadjack |
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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Tim agrees with Tim.
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Tim D
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21184 |
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Grain direction isn't an issue without braces either. It's not an issue in a house with joists at 16" on center. Stressing over a 20" span qualifies for worry-wart status. Never seen a piece warp that was in place and properly supported either. CC did it for a long time without any extra precautions.
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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I'm not confused. I know that a piece of plywood would be useless if every layer had the grain in the same direction. It would bow very bad. I know a little about plywood, my Dad retired from GP. But back to the original statement, the small piece behind the box, with braces on the bottom side, grain direction is not an issue.
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Tim D
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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No, the veneer layers grain direction alternates so with an uneven number of veneer layers, there is always one more layer running the same direction as the face veneers. If you look at the APA load ratings, you will find two significant different ratings as related to the face grain direction relative to the support. Take a look at table 2 in this APA publication Tim, Maybe you are confusing ply sheet with "micro lam" beams. With a micro lam, all the grain does run in the same direction and the reason they are so strong. |
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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So you think all the interior layers run the same direction as the outer veneers?
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Tim D
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Tim, I highly recommend you take a look at the APA load specs in reference to grain direction. BTW, Joel is a certified journeyman carpenter. |
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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It doesn't matter which way the grain is going with a piece of plywood that small with braces on the bottom. And for "drying out and warping" is bull. I replaced mine in 1998, no warping at all. I put 7-9 coats of polyurethane on the top side and edges like the one pictured above.
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Tim D
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Joel,
I'm really surprised about Owl! I have NEVER been disappointed with their quality. Maybe you need to go to their main store? I agree with the treated ply. Unless it's screwed down, it's going to dry out warped all over the place! |
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SWANY
Senior Member Joined: August-12-2014 Location: batavia Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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I'm glad the topic has come up, I need to do mine this winter. Although I'm not completely impressed with marine grade from either Menards or Owl lumber I just don't think I could put today's treated plywood in a boat. Such a lower quality than say 10-15 years ago, at least not without braces like Tim did. I would be worried About it warping even still.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Joel, Great point. I suggest the same since if a non marine ply is used and if there is a void in the center veneer, the strength won't be affected in the port to starboard direction. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Joel, Great point. I suggest the same since if a non marine ply is used and if there is a void in the center veneer, the strength won't be affected in the port to starboard direction. |
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SWANY
Senior Member Joined: August-12-2014 Location: batavia Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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The braces are a great addition for sure. But I would run the grain of the plywood the opposite direction. Especially with where the inspection hole is located.
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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Here's a Mustang 17 I did a couple of years ago. You can see the line of screws on either side of the inspection plate hole. That's where I put 2x4 braces on the backside.
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Tim D
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Yes, I believe as mentioned that this is where marine ply is needed. If you use ether treated or regular ply there's a chance that an inner ply will have a void running the length or width which is the weak point in the ply. All that would be needed to split it is to get Tim's large friend to step aft of the dog house! |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I have been using this from Menards it's approx 1/4" with 5 plys. I cpes it and doubled it up using Cabosil and epoxy. I have to replace two hatches on the Shamrock which delaminated due to the way screws attaching the hinge were installed. I plan to do that in the summer the same way.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21184 |
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20" span requires more strength than 3/4" exterior ply can provide? C'mon. Even CC thought it was fine for the 89+ boats with 26" spans. I'd keep it simple and use treated ply, just like CC did.
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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I've replaced two of those pieces for friends of mine. All it takes is a 200 lb. plus person to step directly behind the motor box on one foot and crack it. What I have done is mount a 2x4 perpendicular on the bottom of the plywood that reaches each stringer. Cut a half moon out for the drive shaft clearance and you won't have any flex.
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Tim D
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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I'm with Pete. There isn't two fiberglass boats out there that are 100% identical. Make sure to account for fudge room with carpet and glass/cpes.
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Watauga
Senior Member Joined: June-12-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 208 |
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Yes, what Pete said. My '81 SN's rear section is 3/4 x 34 1/2 x 39, 7 ply marine, but I believe each section is made specifically for the boat it is in. The number and thickness of glass laminations (or no glass laminations) on the top and bottom sides will change the overall height of the panel and may make it lower or higher then the adjoining sole (floor) of the boat. You also need to consider the edge glass wrapping, or/and thickened epoxy and perhaps carpet in some cases depending on your preference.
I assume you are asking because you lost the original and can't measure it? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Chris,
This is probably the only spot I would recommend true marine plywood. The span of the area needs the strength marine ply offers. I suggest several coats of CPES and then a layer of glass and epoxy on both sides. I suggest actually measuring the area since even if someone does have some measurements, I woun't trust CC to make two boats the same. |
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skibum1110
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2007 Location: Lakeland, FL Status: Offline Points: 256 |
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I have a 75 SN. I need to replace the floor center section behind the motor box. does anyone have the dimensions of this piece? what is the best material and thickness for that section? Thanks
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