1962 Interceptor transmission

chazcheadle wrote: The transmission is not a reducing kind, so it doesn't change the direction of the shaft output, would that have any bearing on how the forward and reverse engaging behaves? Knuckling into forward and holding to keep reverse would seem to be the desired behavior, but are opposite in how the unit seems to function. Or is that just crazy talk? Chaz

Chaz,
No it doesn't matter if the trans is a reduction, yes it is "crazy talk" and yes you need to understand the basic marine trans. Whether it's a mechanical or hydraulic if you get a chance, I suggest you find some exploded views and study them so you understand how both work.

Rotation doesn't matter. When the forward clutch pack engages, the input shaft is coupled to the output shaft. When the reverse clutch engages, the planetary gear set takes over. The input rotation goes through this planetary reversing the input and then out the back.

yeah that was my next step... i suppose the simplest things always occur to me last.      anyway thanks much for the advice..   i'm going to try adjusting things in the next few days and will get back on here with results.

dexron will be fine, do a couple flushes to get the gunk out

Chaz,
There isn't a detent for neutral. Yes, it only takes a slight movement of the shift lever to start engaging forward or reverse but, more at the helm. A good example would be running a mechanical on dry land. If run for any length of time, the vibrations will normally throw the shift lever forward or backward causing the prop to spin.

well, first off its good to see 3 pages of transmission do's and dont's, but i have assessed that the knuckling in was probably more designed for the twin screw boat.
I swear i spent 2 hours and maybe 15 calls on a Paragon mechanical on a blow boat, and the guy was trying to adjust it 3 weeks ago in St Pete, he never new it knuckled and he owned the boat for 35 years...it always dragged, but he did get it to the point that it did knuckle into reverse and balanced the linkage so it would not drag, I can only make recomendations and he felt there would be no safety issues when the trans knuckles in. these trannies are tempremental and do take some time to adjust them correctly, but they do have a sweet spot. I still have a ton of mechanical stuff laying around and parts are still available new. the biggest problem i find when i tear into them are the sloppy planetaries and shafts...easily fixable. but i sloppy trans is that much more harder to adjust because of slop

It has always knuckled for me, and from looking at the mechanism, it looks like this behavior is normal- at least for this model. Above, Eric mentions that some models should have a positive reverse lock and that some of those that should may be over adjusted and not lock. Presumably then, some models do not possess a positive reverse lock at any adjustment level.

Whew! Sounds like I'm heading in the right direction (some pun intended).
The engine is a Westerbeke 4-107, we call it Satan since was a real pain in the but when we first got it, and its red. :+)

-chaz

Chaz,
Ok, you're good with the oil.

If I'm reding correctly, you lossened up the clutch pack so it didn't need as much force to put the trans in forward correct? If so, just keep watching and listening for any slippage.

Everything sounds normal and typical of a manual trans. Run it and see what happens.

Knuckling into reverse is fine with me, and seems to be how this model likes it. I had started all this investigation as I wanted to know why the boat moved forward in idle, and that the feel of shifting forward at the lever never really locked- just got stiffer and stayed. I was afraid that not feeling it lock would allow it to pop back into neutral. after running for year since getting the boat it never did pop back out, but I wanted to know if it could be made to have a more positive feeling shift.

After playing with the lever on the transmission with the linkages disconnected I discovered:
-it took bodily weight to shift into and out of forward and reverse
-neutral (no friction on propshaft, it was easy to turn by hand) was achieved when the lever was at 12o'c
-moving the lever fore/aft more than a couple of degrees began adding friction on the propeller shaft making turning it by hand impossible.
-there was not firm feel to this neutral position, just letting it rest at 12o'c

after adjusting the forward clutch tension:
-it took less force to shift into forward at the transmission, but not too light as I thought that might lead to slipping.
-at the shift lever in the cockpit now there is a definite feel of knuckling into forward.

I just hope I'm not adjusting too many things at once and not being scientific enough in my troubleshooting.

It has been very helpful hearing from others their experience in handling these transmissions and how they work them- things the manuals never get into.

thanks,
chaz

One place i read that is: here.
Though I am unclear if there should be a positive lock into reverse. At the moment, on the transmission pushing the lever all the way aft will lock in reverse- so I guess that is correct. I had read that reverse is supposed to be held at the lever to engage and there wasn't a real lock.
I wonder if the main problem is that the shifter lever sits at 9o'clock for 'neutral' and its weight pushing down is slightly engaging forward. There isn't much play in the linkage so where or how do you add in a positive feeling neutral position? Am I totally missing something?
-chaz

if you pull the shift lever into reverse it will hold the drum so you can spin the adjusting collar.
to concur, some Paragons will also knuckle into reverse depending on model, at times I have seem them adjusted to far thus not letting them knuckle into reverse (over-adjusted)

I've adjusted the forward shift feel so it no longer takes the extreme jerk/yank it used to to engange. Now at the transmission it feels more like a smooth detent/knuckling over. In reconnecting the rod linkages I determined the weight of the shift lever in the cockpit keeps steady pressure on the transmission towards forward- that slight leaning seems to be what is pressing the forward clutch enough to make the propeller spin and move the boat forward in 'neutral'. So perhaps the lever/linkage system needs to be set to balance the lever at 12TDC to keep the transmission from engaging either way. I have read that the Paragons don't have a real neutral, but a zone where there is no pressure on the forward or reverse clutch discs.

more fiddling!

thanks,
-chaz

Haha< as
I wrote that it did occur to me that a C-Craft would not have the troubles.
But, we can't live aboard one. :+)

-chaz

Yatzee! I the bolt is long and must be pretty far out to allow the jub to spin in/out (or rather tighten/loosen) As I have to hang over the top of the engine and and am doing this upside down, and feel for the holes blindly whilst balancing to not fall headfirst into the bilge... I got it adjusted! Now, to finish putting the engine back together and test it out!

Am I right in thinking the forward and reverse adjustments are somewhat connected as far as they are balanced over the 'neutral' zone? Can I adjust one and test it before touching the other? or must they be adjusted at the same time?

thanks!
chaz

I found this image somewhere else on the internet.
I have loosened #1.
Would getting a screwdriver into the slots in threads be what you meant by holding the forward end stationary?

again, thanks for the guidance!
-chaz