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Fuel Pump

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    Posted: April-24-2020 at 10:25pm
KENO - Boom, $58. Thanks for the shop around advise!
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hdfooter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hdfooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 9:29pm
Thank you all. Appreciate all the help and direction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 9:14pm
So ..........back to our regularly scheduled programming, for hdfooter you can order the pump and like has been mentioned by more than one person the inlet won't line up but it's an easy fix with a little hose if you don't have a long enough piece already.

Then on the outlet you can leave it as is or clock things, either way it won't line up like the original..

And then it's your choice of how you adapt the pump outlet to the carburetor.

You maybe can bend your existing line enough, make a new metal line or use USCG approved rubber hose and fittings. It makes no difference to me

You also might shop around a little and you might find a Carter M60502 for around 65 bucks or so
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 9:05pm
Here's a top view of the 89 fuel pump with 12 holes, 6 of them filled by machine screws and the others just look like a black hole.

That's what allows the 30 degree clocking with the old one

By the way...............anybody that wants to can ignore the USCG legal hose fitting, it's fine with me

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 3:17pm
There is USCG approved rubber fuel line (assuming that the advert is true...)

LINK to USCG rubber fuel line

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:


Like you mentioned, the outlet (hard line) is really the only concerning piece... the orientation of the inlet (soft hose) should be relatively inconsequential.

Correct so, a 30 degree difference should not be a big problem like Ken is all worked up about. Also per that picture he posted, it looks like he plumbs everything with rubber hose anyway so clocking isn't needed.



Your thong must be riding up your crack a little more than usual this morning Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Ken have you confirmed that the replacement GM pump can be clocked? That seems to be the implication, just confirming.

Like you mentioned, the outlet (hard line) is really the only concerning piece... the orientation of the inlet (soft hose) should be relatively inconsequential.


Yes, it can be clocked

You take out the 6 screws and rotate the valve section and lower housing together and screw it back together.

You can go 60 degrees at a time, some old ones had 12 holes in the fuel pump body, so you could go 30 degrees at a time but the newer foreign made ones like this only have 6 holes.

So in this case he could only have the outlet at the 7 o'clock or 5 o'clock position but not the original pumps 6 o'clock position.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:


Like you mentioned, the outlet (hard line) is really the only concerning piece... the orientation of the inlet (soft hose) should be relatively inconsequential.

Correct so, a 30 degree difference should not be a big problem like Ken is all worked up about. Also per that picture he posted, it looks like he plumbs everything with rubber hose anyway so clocking isn't needed.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 1:14pm
Ken have you confirmed that the replacement GM pump can be clocked? That seems to be the implication, just confirming.

Like you mentioned, the outlet (hard line) is really the only concerning piece... the orientation of the inlet (soft hose) should be relatively inconsequential.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by hdfooter hdfooter wrote:

My pic of the fuel pump looks just like the pic KENO posted with the inlet at 5 o’clock and outlet at 6 o’clock. Looks like I’ll just need to reroute the lines in and out, or do you guys think I’ll need to replace the lines with longer lines to ensure any length of line issues?
.

If the pump you get is screwed together, then you can clock the inlet/outlet.


You can clock the pump but whatever way you clock it you'll always have the same 60 degree difference between your inlet and outlet on the new pump. (difference between 9 o'clock and 7 o'clock position in degrees) The old pump has a 30 degree difference that can't be changed (difference between 6 o'clock and 5 o'clock position in degrees.

You can't change the way the lower housing with the inlet connection bolts to the valve body section with the outlet connection. It can only bolt together one way and still have the pump work.

So........you can clock both together, but you can't clock them independently of each other to make the new one the same as the old one

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by hdfooter hdfooter wrote:

Will I need to get an extra gasket if I turn it?

If you can clock the pump you get, then you will not need a gasket. The rubber diaphragm acts as the gasket.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 11:51am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

[QUOTE=hdfooter]
If the pump you get is screwed together, then you can clock the inlet/outlet.


I bought a replacement Carter pump for the Mustang while I rebuilt the original and while screwed together you could not change it. Cannot recall specifics but it could not be done. I ended up getting a longer inlet hose
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hdfooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 11:35am
Will I need to get an extra gasket if I turn it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 11:34am
Originally posted by hdfooter hdfooter wrote:

My pic of the fuel pump looks just like the pic KENO posted with the inlet at 5 o’clock and outlet at 6 o’clock. Looks like I’ll just need to reroute the lines in and out, or do you guys think I’ll need to replace the lines with longer lines to ensure any length of line issues?
.

If the pump you get is screwed together, then you can clock the inlet/outlet.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 11:24am
Hose barb on the outlet, hold on to your hat!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hdfooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 11:07am
Thanks for all the input from all of you. I haven’t been able to upload pics yet. If I get time today I’ll try and get on the computer and do it so you all can see. My pic of the fuel pump looks just like the pic KENO posted with the inlet at 5 o’clock and outlet at 6 o’clock. Looks like I’ll just need to reroute the lines in and out, or do you guys think I’ll need to replace the lines with longer lines to ensure any length of line issues?

Again, thank you all for your input and insight, much appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67 ski nat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2020 at 7:17am
454 lucky dog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 9:02pm
Here's a picture of an 89 454 PCM fuel pump for comparison.   

Inlet is at 5 o'clock position, Outlet is at 6 o'clock position

Ruptured diaphragm overflow tube is on other side but that's not a problem.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by hdfooter hdfooter wrote:

If the one on Skidim is the correct one, for $108, to me, it’s easier to replace then rebuild.


The one on SkiDim will fit just fine on the engine, but if you read the notes about the clocking of the inlet and outlet on the linked page below, you may be having to redo your line from the pump to the carburetor due to the clocking difference. Outlet at 7 o'clock position, inlet at 9 o'clock position.

The inlet side should have enough hose for any relocation necessary.

link
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by hdfooter hdfooter wrote:

Fellas, I’m not sure how to attach pics.

If you are on a mobile device, then it's not easy. If so, the easy way is to forward the picture to a laptop. Then using the post reply or by clicking on the full reply editor icon, look for the icon of a tree with the up arrow. Clicking it will bring up a browse box that allows you to select the picture.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hdfooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 6:02pm
Fellas, I’m not sure how to attach pics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hdfooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 1:01pm
If the one on Skidim is the correct one, for $108, to me, it’s easier to replace then rebuild.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by hdfooter hdfooter wrote:

KENO - believe it or not, under direction from a buddy of mine and against my better judgement, we tried that. As soon as the poured in gas was consumed, it died instantly. We tried that 4 times. After the same results each time, that’s when we checked the front and rear fuel compartments on the carb, they were bone dry.


Sounds like you'l be replacing a pump then, or rebuilding the original

I think I like your buddy's approach.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hdfooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 12:44pm
KENO - believe it or not, under direction from a buddy of mine and against my better judgement, we tried that. As soon as the poured in gas was consumed, it died instantly. We tried that 4 times. After the same results each time, that’s when we checked the front and rear fuel compartments on the carb, they were bone dry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 12:25pm
Since you say it's a mechanical pump, not knowing what you've done so far, it sounds like you're trying to start it after 2 years or so.

If that's the case squirt some gas down the carburetor and get the engine running this way.

It will probably die and take a few tries or more this way and it may stay running. The pump will suck a lot better when the engine is actually running and revved up compared to cranking over without starting.

It may be a waste of time doing this if the pump is dead, but it only takes a few minutes and is worth a try.

I can think of better working conditions that what you'll have changing that pump on a V drive BFN   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 11:00am
Yes... a few pics from different angles would be best. Also grab the casting number of the block (bear bell housing).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hdfooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 10:46am
Can you tell by a pic? I’m sure it’s obvious that I’m not a mechanic, but know just enough to get me in trouble. I appreciate the info you’ve given me thus far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 10:35am
If there’s fuel in the inlet side and getting nothing to the carb then I’d replace it... would be good to confirm you have a mark IV block but it’s likely you do.
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The front and rear fuel chambers on the carb are bone dry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2020 at 9:46am
How are you checking that fuel isn’t getting to the carb?
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