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Is this antifreeze ok??

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    Posted: December-23-2020 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


Originally posted by bdillard bdillard wrote:

 a couple of the guys there are serious electricians and offered to help me look into the electrical items y’all have addressed here.


Brad,
Fantastic opportunity to pick up some basics. Have them fill you in on what the tests are doing. Keep your eyes and ears open and even do some of the tests yourself while they direct you. Clap


That’s the plan! I’d love to learn from what they’ll test and how. Like I’d mentioned, one of the reasons for buying the Nautique (outside of Ewing up on them as kid and moving them) was to learn more about the workings of an engine! This will all be part of the education.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2020 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by bdillard bdillard wrote:

 a couple of the guys there are serious electricians and offered to help me look into the electrical items y’all have addressed here.

Brad,
Fantastic opportunity to pick up some basics. Have them fill you in on what the tests are doing. Keep your eyes and ears open and even do some of the tests yourself while they direct you. Clap


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2020 at 1:29pm
That's great you have some inside storage for a while.  Are you holding off on winterizing completely because you want to get it running first?  Would be nice to get your problems sorted out now so you can just fire up in the spring.

If you are installing new ignition parts including points, you'll want/need to adjust points and check timing on the engine once you get it started.  That's another thing that I'm guessing one of the guys there could help you with.  And if you are working on the distributor take a look at the advance mechanism, should be clean and shiny and work easily, all springs in place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdillard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2020 at 9:29am
It’s on my list of things to check.

I lucked out a bit. My old company is letting me store the boat in the loading area of their building for a few weeks to get me through the holidays and some of the upcoming cold weather so I’ve bought some time to get these things looked into!

Also, a couple of the guys there are serious electricians and offered to help me look into the electrical items y’all have addressed here. I’ll keep you all posted when I’m able to get back to checking some of the electrical
Items with a multimeter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2020 at 9:26am
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

If your battery is going dead during short term storage, it is either at end of life or you have a parasitic draw..

Brad,
Plus 1 for checking for a parasitic draw. You should not have to keep that battery maitainer hooked up. I've laid up my boats all winter for years without any charging and come spring no problems. 

There are some good youtube videos on how to perform the parasitic test. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2020 at 8:41am
If your battery is going dead during short term storage, it is either at end of life or you have a parasitic draw.

Certainly get the battery tested. 

If OK, then check for a draw using amp function on multimeter - connect in series between battery terminal & unhooked cable without anything turned on.  Should read zero.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DVskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2020 at 9:52pm
Free with mailer coupon at Harbor Freight. Cheap but it works.  I have a Fluke DVM from 1984, still works great. Definitely wasn’t free though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdillard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2020 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


Originally posted by bdillard bdillard wrote:

 I’m wondering though if something could be loose in my ignition though too given how it just cranked repeatedly on its own. Could that be a possibility? Or more than likely the solenoid/starter relay as has been suggested?


It's time to move on this idea 

Originally posted by bdillard bdillard wrote:

 Sounding like I need to buy me a multimeter and check some of the readings 

A basic VOM can be had for around $20. Great tool that's handy around the house and car too. 


Thanks Pete!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2020 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by bdillard bdillard wrote:

 I’m wondering though if something could be loose in my ignition though too given how it just cranked repeatedly on its own. Could that be a possibility? Or more than likely the solenoid/starter relay as has been suggested?

It's time to move on this idea 

Originally posted by bdillard bdillard wrote:

 Sounding like I need to buy me a multimeter and check some of the readings 

A basic VOM can be had for around $20. Great tool that's handy around the house and car too. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdillard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2020 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:



Originally posted by bdillard bdillard wrote:

@KENO - thanks! Awesome info in those posts.

@SNobsessed - I tried some sand paper between the contacts but that didn’t seem to solve the issue. The gap on the points seemed good based on my feeler gauge but I’m no expert again so I could be wrong. In regards to the trick charger, maybe I’m describing that poorly. It’s a car quest battery charger/maintainer. Battery is an Interstate Marine Cranking battery. Looks like 1000 cranking amps.

Sounding like I need to buy me a multimeter and check some of the readings to try to locate where Im losing power maybe.

Yesterday after cleaning off the contacts in the points I still wasn’t seeing any spark. Wondering if something down line is my issue. Or it’s bad points? Bad condenser?


Once you get the engine in a condition where Mother Nature won't damage it, then you can relax for the holidays and do some searching/reading about ignition systems here on CCF.

Earlier you asked about a coil and SNobsessed told you to check it's resistance, it should have a primary resistance of about 1.5 ohms and a secondary resistance of about 8000 or so ohms.

For some reason, I get the feeling that Advance is your favorite parts place and you probably are a SpeedPerks member and then you do computer orders with a 25% off coupon to save some money Wink

If you need a coil, a BWD E70 from Advance is a good choice, and also tucked away in the ignition circuit is a ballast resistor that could be bad and causing no spark. A good number for that would be a BWD RU-12 at Advance also. (it's about 1.3 ohms resistance)

No fair buying a bunch of new parts without research and testing the old parts though.

And now for one more 2 part question..............do you have a safety lanyard on the boat and is it plugged in? 

I'd hate to have the "no spark" be due to a lanyard that's not plugged in or defective Wink





KENO - haha no rea loyalty to advance auto or anything. Just the closest shop to me that I can find these kinds of parts. I’ve ordered a few parts over the last few years from Nautiqueparts.Com and have checked places like skidim and west marine (they west always seems crazy expensive). Advanced always just seemed easy when it came to looking for those engine parts and fluids for winterization.

I looked into NAPA though and there’s one near me that I’ll have to look into!

As far as a safety lanyard...mine doesn’t have one...not sure if it ever did, but it hasn’t since I bought it. It does have an open hole in the dash though that says “alarm” but I always assumed that was for things like engine temp, etc and maybe the previous owner pulled it for some reason?

I’m wondering though if something could be loose in my ignition though too given how it just cranked repeatedly on its own. Could that be a possibility? Or more than likely the solenoid/starter relay as has been suggested?

I’ll get the battery load tested. I don’t get to get out on the water with the fam as often as I’d like and from time to time the battery sits and I can think of a couple times at least where it was just fully dead (which I know is not good - can’t think of a way to keep it charged though unless I pull the battery each time we wrap up and bring it home with me).

Appreciate all this help though! I’m no mechanic by any means but I’m learning so much about these engines!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2020 at 5:45pm
Yeah Pete, I'm getting lazy on this internet stuff!   Ken beat me to the explanation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2020 at 10:00am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

The extra cranking was caused by bad solenoid.  They are cheap.  You can check coil with ohmmeter.  Not sure of exact ohms but you can look that up on the 'net.
 
Chris mentioned the Ohms of the relay coil. He's a little off as getting a Ohm reading of the coil will not check for welded contacts.  

Sorry Chris. Without a description of the coil and your not starting a new paragraph, I made the mistake of thinking you were speaking of the coil in the start relay. My mistake as I now understand you were referencing the ignition coil.
Brad, 
Chris is talking about the ignition coil and the Ohm reading to check it was posted by Ken. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2020 at 9:22am





And........if you want a good diagram of your wiring and ignition setup here's the ever useful TRBenj simplified diagram that's good for your 1990.

It doesn't show a safety lanyard, but it's in the purple wire from the ignition switch to the ballast resistor and if unplugged or defective, it will let the engine crank over, but you'll have no spark



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2020 at 9:16am
Originally posted by bdillard bdillard wrote:

@KENO - thanks! Awesome info in those posts.

@SNobsessed - I tried some sand paper between the contacts but that didn’t seem to solve the issue. The gap on the points seemed good based on my feeler gauge but I’m no expert again so I could be wrong. In regards to the trick charger, maybe I’m describing that poorly. It’s a car quest battery charger/maintainer. Battery is an Interstate Marine Cranking battery. Looks like 1000 cranking amps.

Sounding like I need to buy me a multimeter and check some of the readings to try to locate where Im losing power maybe.

Yesterday after cleaning off the contacts in the points I still wasn’t seeing any spark. Wondering if something down line is my issue. Or it’s bad points? Bad condenser?

Once you get the engine in a condition where Mother Nature won't damage it, then you can relax for the holidays and do some searching/reading about ignition systems here on CCF.

Earlier you asked about a coil and SNobsessed told you to check it's resistance, it should have a primary resistance of about 1.5 ohms and a secondary resistance of about 8000 or so ohms.

For some reason, I get the feeling that Advance is your favorite parts place and you probably are a SpeedPerks member and then you do computer orders with a 25% off coupon to save some money Wink

If you need a coil, a BWD E70 from Advance is a good choice, and also tucked away in the ignition circuit is a ballast resistor that could be bad and causing no spark. A good number for that would be a BWD RU-12 at Advance also. (it's about 1.3 ohms resistance)

No fair buying a bunch of new parts without research and testing the old parts though.

And now for one more 2 part question..............do you have a safety lanyard on the boat and is it plugged in? 

I'd hate to have the "no spark" be due to a lanyard that's not plugged in or defective Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2020 at 8:40am
Originally posted by bdillard bdillard wrote:

. Battery is an Interstate Marine Cranking battery. Looks like 1000 cranking amps.
 

Brad,
Get it load tested.

If it doesn't test good and you decide to get another battery, there's no need to get a "marine" battery. All that basically gives you are terminal studs besides the normal lug type posts. A automotive starting works and you don't pay the extra for "marine". 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdillard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2020 at 8:13am
@KENO - thanks! Awesome info in those posts.

@SNobsessed - I tried some sand paper between the contacts but that didn’t seem to solve the issue. The gap on the points seemed good based on my feeler gauge but I’m no expert again so I could be wrong. In regards to the trick charger, maybe I’m describing that poorly. It’s a car quest battery charger/maintainer. Battery is an Interstate Marine Cranking battery. Looks like 1000 cranking amps.

Sounding like I need to buy me a multimeter and check some of the readings to try to locate where Im losing power maybe.

Yesterday after cleaning off the contacts in the points I still wasn’t seeing any spark. Wondering if something down line is my issue. Or it’s bad points? Bad condenser?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2020 at 5:49am
Originally posted by bdillard bdillard wrote:

Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

The extra cranking was caused by bad solenoid.  They are cheap.  You can check coil with ohmmeter.  Not sure of exact ohms but you can look that up on the 'net.


Could that be the issue with it not starting?

No, a starter that continues to crank the engine wouldn't cause the no start. More likely is your idea of corroded contact faces on the point set. Runing a fine file or abrasive paper through closed points will clear that up.

The cause of the running starter is a start relay (some call it a solenoid) with it's contacts welded together which allows current to continuously flow to the starter. The  cause of the welded contacts is a weak, bad or wrong type of battery. You trying to start the engine could have run the battery down. Using a deep cycle battery rather than a starting type is another cause. You have mentioned using a "trickle" charger and these can also damage a battery. A charger that is continuously connected must be a type that ether shuts off when the battery is fully charged or have precise regulation of current to the battery. These are typically labled as "maintainers"  

Chris mentioned the Ohms of the relay coil. He's a little off as getting a Ohm reading of the coil will not check for welded contacts. If you do want to check the relay, you would get an Ohm reading across the two big posts where the big cables are connected. If you get a low near zero Ohm reading, then the contacts are welded together. If you don't, the contacts may have opened up but, get a new start relay anyway. Check the battery too. You can take it in for a load test at one of the auto supplies and remember, you do NOT want a deep cycle battey. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2020 at 1:58am
If you decide you're changing ignition parts, here are some Sierra numbers for ignition parts for your 90 which should be the screw down cap Prestolite distributor. These numbers work for getting parts from NAPA with a NAPA label on them.

The NAPA part number is the same as the Sierra part number

Points 18-5303

Condenser 18-5347

Rotor   18-5403

Cap   18-5352

You can also get the solenoid at NAPA with the number in your link above  18-5815

If you're going to Advance or Autozone, they could maybe do some cross referencing to the Sierra numbers


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2020 at 1:26am
Brad

If you want to drain the exhaust manifolds and you can't get the plugs out at the back of the manifolds, which seems to be your situation right now, there's a relatively easy solution.

Your boat is a 1990 Sport Nautique......the engine sits relatively level, so if you pull the hoses off the inlet to each manifold and remove the 90 degree fitting on each manifold, and lower the front of the trailer as far down as you can, you'll be draining the manifolds.and you'll drain as much water out as you would by taking out the rear plugs.

Those rear ones with a recessed 1/2 inch square drive are usually cast iron and if they haven't been out in who knows how long, they can be a real bear.

The 90 degree fittings on the front are probably brass or could be nylon, but they don't rust and should be easier to get out. (with your luck so far though, ya never know Wink}

Then assuming you drained the engine, the J tube,the transmission oil cooler and suction strainer, you have the engine and manifolds drained and you can pour in antifreeze or leave it drained, whichever let's you sleep better

By the way, the easiest way to drain the transmission cooler is by taking the hose from the cooler to the raw water pump off at the pump suction and making sure it's lower than the cooler and the cooler will drain. The cooler is a little delicate and the less you screw with the hose at the cooler or the little drain plug on the cooler, the better off you are.

Then you can take it to your mechanic when he reopens if you're not feeling too confident about getting it all straightened out yourself
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdillard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2020 at 11:57pm
Also wondering if it’s be worth replacing my points, condenser, cap, and rotor. I’d imagine they’ve not been replaced in a long time, if ever.

If I were to replace the points and condenser, is it ok to grab those from an auto parts store (advance auto, autozone, etc) or try to track down from a marine dealer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdillard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2020 at 9:43pm
Would this be a good replacement solenoid if I were to try replacing that part?

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/sierra--18-5815-solenoid--460453
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdillard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2020 at 9:05pm
Originally posted by DVskier DVskier wrote:

Lake Keowee, 45 minutes south of Greenville.  Lake Lure is really nice but overcrowded. My ski coach has a private lake behind Ingles in Lake Lure so I’m up there 2-3 times a week from April-October. My boat stays on a lift all year.


That’s awesome. We pass through close to that area a couple times a year on trips down to FL going south on 85. Lake Norman is nice but it’s tough to find smooth water here too with how crowded it can get on a weekend. Need to get out on weekdays!
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Lake Keowee, 45 minutes south of Greenville.  Lake Lure is really nice but overcrowded. My ski coach has a private lake behind Ingles in Lake Lure so I’m up there 2-3 times a week from April-October. My boat stays on a lift all year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdillard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2020 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by DVskier DVskier wrote:

I’m about 2 hours southwest of you and I just drain the engine, manifolds, trans cooler, j tube, water filter. That’s it, antifreeze is unnecessary in the South. Also Damp Rid is great for keeping your upholstery from getting mildewed. Sta Bil is your friend.


Are you out near the lake lure area by chance? Have a buddy that has a family home on lure. I already added some sta bil to the tank when I topped it off so I’ve got that in there! Maybe if all else fails I’ll go the route you suggested. Something about the reassurance of having AF in there helps me sleep at night for the $30 it cost haha.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdillard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2020 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

The extra cranking was caused by bad solenoid.  They are cheap.  You can check coil with ohmmeter.  Not sure of exact ohms but you can look that up on the 'net.


Could that be the issue with it not starting?
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I’m about 2 hours southwest of you and I just drain the engine, manifolds, trans cooler, j tube, water filter. That’s it, antifreeze is unnecessary in the South. Also Damp Rid is great for keeping your upholstery from getting mildewed. Sta Bil is your friend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2020 at 6:00pm
The extra cranking was caused by bad solenoid.  They are cheap.  You can check coil with ohmmeter.  Not sure of exact ohms but you can look that up on the 'net.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdillard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2020 at 5:31pm
Good stuff - I'll see if I have a ratchet that would fit.  It is a recessed square, as mentioned that it might be. 

The drama continues though...I got wondering if the points might have corroded a bit, so I cleaned them up some and replaced the disty cap and tried turning the engine over and it cranked, still no fire...BUT...then it continued to crank even after I'd moved the key back to the run position.  it kept cranking...and cranking...on its own.  I removed the key...still cranked.  I turned off the ignition switch on the dash...still cranked.  It cranked for maybe 2 min until it slowed and finally stopped.  I should say it was a pretty slow crank.  

Not sure if that maybe helps with what might be startup issue, but figured I'd put it out there.  

As far as the weather...I'm around Lake Norman (Mooresville NC).  It won't get terribly cold over the winter but we will have a week or two where we'll have night time temps in the 20s and daytime wont barely get above 32.  But it's pretty short lived. 

Wondering if it'd just be best at this point to drain it as best I can of all water (including exhaust manifolds) and then just pour in some AF in through the thermostat hose and raw water hose.  Will probably have to get my mechanic involved.  I feel I'm getting over my head at this point on the startup issues. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2020 at 10:10am
BTW, when you remove a drain plug, don't forget to probe the hole with a piece of wire to remove any sediment that may be blocking the hole. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2020 at 10:08am
Brad,
The exhaust manifolds are typically the first to freeze up. They need to be drained. Do the plugs have a square recess in them? If so, then the typical tool to use is a 1/2" drive ratchet. How cold are you expecting the temp to drop in the next several days? It does take a few days of below freeezing to get to the engine. A drop light with a 60 watt incandescent bulb in the dog house will keep things warm. 


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