Barracuda strut to prop distance |
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11186 |
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Pretty poor attempt at avoiding the question Pete ![]() |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7963 |
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All things being equal, Charlies strut would allow for less prop to shaft distance as the strut reaches farther aft.
Anyway, I appreciate the info and welcome any more measurements I can dig out. Our original shaft was bent pretty badly, but maybe I can dig it out if it didn't go to the scrap pile.
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Sorry but I'm not a math teacher
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11186 |
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Further aft of what? They're both 17 ft Barracudas, assuming the transmissions are mounted in the same spot and the struts are in the same spot and you put a 41 inch shaft for example in both, the prop is in the same spot on both boats. On the boat with a 6A6 it sits closer to the strut by an inch though since the difference in the struts is all at the back. Trim an inch off the back of a 6A6 and it's the same as a 6A I guess you'll have to explain how that gives any more room for a bigger prop Pete ![]() |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bruce,
Yes, the struts are different. Looks like you have a 6A and Charlie's is a 6A6. The 6A6 is 1 inch longer at the aft end so, that really puts the prop farther aft. I'd say the aft move was due to CC going to a 13" prop.
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11186 |
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Not to throw a curve ball at you Bruce, but if you look closely at your strut and Charlie's strut they're not the same so any measurements from his may not really be what you're looking for if you're trying to get the prop location in it's original spot. If you took an inch or so off of Charlie's, it would look like yours ![]() ![]() |
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11186 |
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Sounds like longer shaft time.
Plenty of CC's had a lot of strut to prop clearance over the years. Gen 2 SN's and the Martiniques on that same hull come to mind with over 2 inches of distance. You have the info you wanted, you know the boat, I'd go with what you think needs to be done right now
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7963 |
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The rudder port is an issue and will be recessed. It did not cause any problems prior to the engine swap, however. The problems I noted on page one I know to be from the shortened shaft as I've experienced them with another Cuda. I tried to install an original rudder port, but the hull has been altered to except the newer style port. This was done by a PO. ![]() |
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11186 |
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Bruce It sounds and looks like you have the original spec between the picture of Charlie and the measurement numbers from Charlie by way of Pete What I wonder about is your comment on the rudder port that is not mounted flush but sticks down from the bottom of the hull. Was that bigger rudder and new port on there before the problem started or was it put on to try and solve the handling issue? You mentioned Reid thinking that might be the problem, you can add me to that list. Is it hanging down say 1/4 inch or so with squared off edges or is it tapered so it's at least somewhat hydrodynamically efficient If you recess it like it was originally built, you'll be back to "baseline" there too |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Thanks Bruce,
Keep us informed how it works out.
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7963 |
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I simply want the original spec to use for a base line. How much length gets added to the shaft will depend on moving the shaft into different places and making a decision.
There are 2 things to consider, prop to strut clearance which affects shaft performance, and prop to hull clearance which affects boat performance. I don't see how anyone can disagree that shaft performance is secondary to boat performance. If perfect shaft performance is causing poor boat performance, what good is the perfect shaft performance? In the case of the Cuda, Correct Craft put long shafts on them for a reason. While some people might cringe at the sight of their excessive prop to strut distance, they perform well and have been running like this since the 1960's. In our case, we went with a short shaft in order to have perfect shaft performance as we were installing an engine that had 300 hp, much more than what was in the boat originally, and we knew it would require more prop, which it did. We went from 12x13 to 12x16. I've explained the handling characteristics on page one. Based on my experience with 2 Cudas, I believe lengthening the shaft will be an improvement and make the boat handle better as it did with the longer shaft. I'd rather not go to 2.5", but certainly .5" is inferior as far as boat performance goes to the original spec of 2.5". As far as weight of the engine, I cannot find an Interceptor spec that has the weight of the FE marine engine. I did find automotive specs that have the 318 at 550# and the 427 at 650#. Chrysler Marine states that the 318 was 750# with all their beefy marine parts on it. Given all of the light aluminum parts that the Interceptor has, I'd bet the 2 marine engines weigh about the same and the Interceptor maybe slightly lighter. This isn't rocket science and I often think some of us are overly critical of some of the things Correct Craft did in building their boats. The long shaft on the Cuda may have been an unorthodox fix to enhance boat performance, but it worked. I simply want the original spec so that we have a base line.
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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The overhung load is a given but what are the performance problems? Besides the cavitation Bruce,what other, handling issues are there? Tim?
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21198 |
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We don’t need my testimonial- but I think it’s relevant to hear Bruce’s theory on how reducing that shaft to prop dimension caused problems.
Based on my reading and experience I think it’s highly likely there is something else going on- maybe it was induced by shortening the shaft or maybe it’s another rigging or set up issue, possibly related to the installation of a significantly heavier, more powerful engine. |
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11186 |
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Pete, It must have something to do with this "overhung load" you speak of when your shaft is too long. From a thread sometime in the past
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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In your experience what exactly happens without minimization? "reliability and performance perspective" is pretty vague.
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21198 |
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Because every tidbit of reliable information on the subject, combined with a pretty reasonable amount of personal experience (especially in overpowered boats) says that minimizing that dimension is optimal from a reliability and performance perspective.
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Tim, I know he wants to go back to the original length. How is that an "errant path". The overhung load issue?
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21198 |
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Pete, I think your reading comprehension is really falling off these days.
Bruce is talking about adding 2+” back into his shaft length... aiming to restore the original 2.5”+ overhang (against the strong recommendation of at least one person here). |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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That's what I thought.
I'm sure glad you aren't going down some "errant paths". Seems Timmy forgets all the times he has recommended shortening shafts so the prop runs close to the strut. |
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Got Tiques ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February-27-2009 Location: Scotia, NY Status: Offline Points: 427 |
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Bruce, Now I remember another reason I shortened my shaft. There was not enough shaft to rudder clearance with the original shaft to mount a 1210 prop. PO prop could be assembled, but the 1210 has way more metal nearer the center.
Yup, one more factor in the equation. Happy New Year!! |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7963 |
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Not enough...
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7963 |
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Just the shaft length. Looking for the base line as we cut ours down to "optimum" length.
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bruce,
What exactly are you looking for? From the start of the thread, it sounds like just a shaft length?
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21198 |
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Those are the types of things (amongst others) that you should be checking before going down any errant paths with shaft lengthening. How many classics, Mustangs and skiers do you have to measure? |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7963 |
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Relative to the transom or rudder...
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11186 |
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+1 ^^ Some more of that same math ![]() Same strut, same mounting angle, same distance to the log from the strut
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21198 |
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A bit more forward relative to what? Certainly not the strut of the same one was used on both boats. |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bruce,
It's been a long time since I've been in a Mustang bilge so I can't remember how close the log is to the trans. The Cuda log is real close to the point where tightening the nut on the end of a double taper shaft isn't easy. There's only about an inch between the trans and shaft coupling faces so there's no way a socket and ratchet will fit. The answer is making a special socket by cutting the length down and then welding a flat bar handle on it's end.
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7963 |
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Thanks, Pete. That's good info. The log on a Cuda must be a bit more forward than it is on a Mustang?
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bruce,
Here's what's on Charlie's Cuda. The original shaft was 41". Using the wistness marking on the old for a guide the distance between the prop and the strut was 2&1/2". The new shaft is a GP double taper and per the request, they made it 40". This gives 1&1/2" between the prop and hub. Charlie is running a 540 giving a prop to hull clearance of about 5/8". He says there are no different handling characteristics from the original. EDIT: Per the strut/shaft/rudder list, the shaft length is listed as 41" so, I'd say Charlie's original shaft was factory.
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