Pertronix Ignitor/Coil Setup |
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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Posted: June-20-2021 at 7:36am |
Thanks again KENO. I noticed that mounting surface was pretty thin when I was cleaning it up (it's a used intake) and was wondering how well it would seal. That plate looks like a great idea
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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If it's the Performer 2181 manifold that you have, you should read the link below for info on a spacer plate that'll keep you from having vacuum leak issues due to the skinny mounting surface for the carburetor on the manifold. |
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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No, I wasn't planning on switching to roller rockers. Mostly because I'm assuming there would be some pretty significant cost involved and I'm not sure if the boat is really worth that kind of an investment in it's current form.
Thank you for the tip on drilling them to 17/32". If they need to be opened up anyway and that's what a 351 head is from the factory, I don't see any reason not to. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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I think I'd drill them (gt40P) to the same size as your present 351 heads and that's 17/32 Here's some reading in the link below |
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2979 |
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FWIW I blocked the passage at the head when I installed the Performer RPM unit in the ‘94. No issues.
Some “P” heads come pre-drilled T 1/2”. You will like the 90 degree spark plug holes when it comes to changing plugs. When changing heads, valve train geometry is critical. Lots of instructional videos on YouTube for all that stuff. If you are changing heads, are you thinking to go with roller rockers?
JQ
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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I cut around 4-5 inches off my FAE and gained some top end, so I think you guys were right on the money there. Didn't seem to make any difference in noise levels either, which is great.
Now that the boat is running well, I'm looking at installing the Edelbrock performer intake I picked up for the boat last winter. Are you guys blocking the exhaust crossover when you install an aluminum intake, or leaving the system intact? I'm also looking at a set of gt40p heads that a local guy is selling and was wondering if there is anything I need to watch out for on the swap other than drilling it out to 0.500" for the 351 head bolts and installing brass freeze plugs? From what I'm reading, it looks like a pretty straightforward swap that can reuse pretty much everything but the spark plugs. |
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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I've posted a few on here, but man it's tough to make them work on my phone. This site in general is pretty bad on mobile, but it's worth it for the information.
I'm pretty much over loud cars/boats by now, but I built it after reading what the CO can do to people who ride behind the boat or in the back seat. Anyway, I can probably take a few inches off it like you guys suggested and still send the exhaust well past the tub.... I mean slalom skiers. |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1781 |
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I’m a noisy boy……your pipe looks well built but I would think it could be much shorter and still be effective for noise reduction and not produce so much drag if in fact it is.
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2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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Hey, is that your first CCF picture? Congrats
Looks well built and a good copy of what's out there. I can barely spell FAE and know nothing worthwhile about them other than they're quiet and keep the nasty stuff underwater, but it's seems like it would be pretty deep in the water, adding extra drag, unless it's just the camera angle. That one picture will make the "noisy boys" start clutching their chests and mumbling something about having the big one, but it's your boat so you can do whatever you please
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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This is the part in question. If anyone has a suggestion on how to improve it, I'm all ears. I tried to imitate the other FAE I had seen online, but ended up with a lot of water coming through the platform and had to put some foam under the slots to stop it.
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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I agree with you, and not knowing the answer is going to bother me until I run the boat with it off again. I went back after installing the 540 and looked at a .gpx file from when I ran the boat in it's original form last year, and it shows a top speed of 40mph. I can't imagine it's slower with the new prop, and the only variable that comes to mind is the FAE. I backyard engineered it of course, and ended up with a lot of spray coming through my swim platform that I had to address afterwards. I'm sure it's adding a lot of drag and screwing things up under the water.
Like you suggested, the solution is pretty simple. I know I need to run it without the FAE, it's just hard to bring myself to take it off because it's so nice having it on there. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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Since you seem to be the inquisitive kind of guy that isn't afraid to investigate and then try something while getting the boat's issues straightened out, I think you should take off the FAE temporarily so you can see how much affect it has on your performance just so you know if the engine is running right I mean like what kind of guy (other than me and I'm not normal) puts the allegedly dead Pete-tronics module back in the distributor to see if it works after the cap change. (and it did) You're A-OK in my book Hysteria No FAE, you should be seeing 4500plus RPM and 45 plus MPH with that prop on your boat. Then you can reinstall the FAE, at least knowing what it's affect is on the performance and whether the engine/boat runs like it should before the FAE addition
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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It's a brand new Acme 540 and that reading is from GPS. On that note, if anyone knows where to get replacement gauge faces for the airguides, I would love to replace them. They are the off white style, which I think it a really classy look.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Isaac,
The 4200 isn't that bad but a few hundred more would be better. I don't recall if you mentioned what prop you are running. What is it as that could be the WOT RPM's issue. The 37 MPH, is that a GPS reading or from the speedo(s)?
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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Boat ran well on the lake with no drama today. I adjusted the accelerator pump linkage and it's running the best it ever has with no hesitation or misfires. Still only getting about 37mph @4200rpm out of it, but I that may be due in part to my exhaust.
I checked the timing in the driveway before I left and it looked to be advancing another 20deg or so when I revved it up. The pertronix unit is back in the distributor now, it must have been a coincidence that the failing cap got a second wind when I reinstalled the points. I'm pretty happy with how it's running right now so I'll probably leave it alone and start fixing the little things until I'm done with it for the season. Appreciate all the suggestions and troubleshooting help from you guys by the way, there's a lot of knowledge on these boats floating around this site |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1781 |
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Isnt it awesome to fix things! Good work.
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2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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I guess we'll be waiting to hear that the timing advances from 10 BTDC to the low 30's and the engine revs to 4500 plus with the Acme 540 and runs 45 plus mph and all will be "right"
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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Installed the new timing set, but that wasn't the problem. Changing it out did advance my valve timing a ton though, so I'm interested to see how it does next time I'm on the water.
After the timing set didn't fix it, I went back to the ignition system, knowing that I had compression and being pretty confident that I had fuel. I knew I had spark from using the timing light and an inline spark tester, but I didn't know how strong it was. So, I bought an adjustable spark gap tester and sure enough, it was bad. Must have been just enough to trigger the timing light and inline test light. I checked the spark again right off the coil and it was jumping 1/2" gap with no issues, so I took a really close look at the distributor cap and found some carbon tracking between posts. When I installed the new cap this evening, it drastically changed the spark timing. I'm not entirely sure what was happening, but I'm guessing that the spark crossing over between posts in the cap was throwing my timing light way off and causing all the weirdness before. After putting it back at 10deg initial timing again, it fired right up and ran great in the driveway. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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Let's hope it's fixed or a lot better anyways
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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I'll see how it looks when I get the new timing set in there. Whatever the case may be, I appreciate all your help and the info you provide on here
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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Whatever
I think your baseline or starting point has moved with the slop though.
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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It doesn't really matter how much you turn the distributor in relation to the camshaft because you don't reference any timing marks on the cam though. In your example, the timing changes by 20 degrees at the crank no matter how advanced or retarded your cam timing is. It's no different than people who run adjustable cam gears aside from the fact that the timing might walk back and forth a little due to the play in the chain.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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But the ignition timing starts at that camshaft that's not timed right with the crankshaft if you have a bunch of slop. It's kinda lagging behind
Whenever you move the distributor to adjust timing if you physically rotate the distributor 10 degrees for example, the crankshaft timing that you're looking at with the timing light will change by twice as much so you'll see 20 degrees of change since the camshaft is rotating at half of the crankshaft speed. I think you'll see a change for the better if you have too much slop now and it's taken care of with a new timing set.
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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Yes, it had the nylon coated cam sprocket, looked like everything was still intact though. The ignition timing references the crank so I wouldn't think the chain slop would require ignition advance. I do think (hope anyway) that the late valve timing was causing the poor vacuum, which is why I started investigating it in the first place. If I can get it to run and idle after this is fixed I'll take another look at the ignition timing to see how it behaves.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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I imagine your 76 had the silent chain and an aluminum upper gear with nylon coated teeth along with a 2 pc fuel pump eccentric. That's what was original on a 76.
Were all the teeth intact or maybe lots of chunks missing to make for all the slop? I think it would explain why the timing had to be advanced and it would screw up all your valve opening and closing timing too which would affect vacuum which would make for that lousy running engine .. |
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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The low vacuum thing has been bothering me so I checked the timing chain tonight by rotating the crank while watching the distributor rotor. It showed about 15 degrees of crank rotation before the rotor moved, so I went ahead and pulled the timing cover off and confirmed that the timing set is shot. Ordered parts and am hoping to have it back together this weekend. Can't really say this explains the weird ignition timing behavior, but it should be a step in the right direction.
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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I don't have an answer for question #1 because I reset the timing to 10deg and never checked the advance when the base was at 30. I did look at the timing when it was at 10deg base and it advanced when it I revved up the motor.
I tried checking for vacuum leaks around the intake with propane and couldn't find any. Carb spacer gaskets all looked good when I pulled the carb off, but were replaced anyway |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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I think that right about now a quick review of the status of the timing and carburetor might be a good thing.
When the base was at 30 degrees, how far was it advancing? Are you sure there are no vacuum leaks, like at the carburetor spacer gaskets?
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Hysteria
Groupie Joined: May-31-2020 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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Blew out the bleed passages and then took the metering block off and cleaned it with carb cleaner again after that didn't work. Really seems like a fuel issue right now because if I give it a couple squirts with the accelerator pump it will fire a few times pretty consistently. Otherwise, it randomly hits while cranking but never starts up. Kinda running out of ideas on that front.
Also double checked the mechanical advance, which appears to be normal. Checked the compression just to make sure something didn't go south mechanically and it has 110-120psi (cold of course) on all 8 cylinders. |
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