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Updated: Help needed with cam timing-Ford 312 RR |
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MourningWood 
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 Topic: Updated: Help needed with cam timing-Ford 312 RRPosted: November-18-2024 at 6:36pm |
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Well, time to write the final chapter of this brief saga. The engine gave me fits going back together. Funny that it went together easily 10 years or so ago. Nothings changed except the number of candles on my cake.
Anyway, some others may find this info useful (or amusing). There is very, very little good information about the reverse rotation Ford Y-block. Lot's of friendly advice but fewer with hands-on 'sperience'. The cam (unique to the RR engine) is driven in the 'normal' direction by a direct gear-to-gear setup. This allows Ford to use the same crankshaft, rods, and most other engine internals. Even the distributor. Oil wicking is done through the rear main seal or crankshaft wick direction. (have seen both). As for the cam itself, the reverse rotation results in a uniquely different firing order. I think that the other cam specs are very close, if not identical, to the standard rotation. Power output is the same... Using a degree wheel (super fun!) and after multiple readings I came up with the following "cam card": Expressed in more conventional terms (at .050" lift"): INT open 5 ATDC, closes 37 ABDC. EX opens 40 BBDC, closes 7 BTDC. ( these were produced using a very accurate dial indicator w/ magnetic base) In the end, the boat runs flawlessly, even the carbs behaved well at Tahoe elevation. (a preemptive jet change and throttle blade opening adjustment). Didn't even dump fuel out the aft carb all over the electrics. (anyone with one of these engines will understand that one). And, that's it for 'One 'N Dun" show experience. Walk off with a trophy. Now my wife doesn't have to fear for her life should she spill a few drops of her favorite Pinot.... Time to pull some (younger) skiers, create some new memories with it. Thanks all for the help on this, hope someone else can benefit from the info here. |
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1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun"
'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
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MourningWood
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Posted: November-18-2024 at 6:08pm |
Yes, he wood (SIC). I might ad that if one does choose to work on Carter YH's that they don't drink or have a firearm within reach!!
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1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun"
'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
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MrMcD
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Posted: August-14-2024 at 6:20pm |
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Thanks Ken, I knew you could do it. 1st Place in a prestigious show is impressive.
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KENO
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Posted: August-14-2024 at 5:38pm |
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One rotation coming right up  
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MrMcD
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Posted: August-14-2024 at 4:42pm |
 Take a Look at the Tahoe Results! Once again the system flipped the picture, no idea how to correct. Sorry Mourningwood. I hope the results have offset some of the pain getting the boat ready.
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MrMcD
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Posted: August-13-2024 at 9:32pm |
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Ha, that is pretty funny. They look very cool, no idea how they perform but the look is priceless. I was the Rep for Carter from 1991 to 2001, I never ran across that 312 set up. We had all the rebuild kits so I bet it was in the line and just never got any attention back then, everything being sold was AFB's. That was the time frame when every new car was switching to Fuel Injection and Carter was sold off due to falling sales.
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KENO
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Posted: August-13-2024 at 8:11pm |
If you have a bucket list, make sure that screwing around with Carter YH's isn't on that list. I think Mourning Wood would agree
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MrMcD
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Posted: August-13-2024 at 11:56am |
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Thanks Ken, I have never worked on that type intake set up. The last 312 I worked on had a Halley 4bbl and set up was normal.
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KENO
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Posted: August-13-2024 at 8:42am |
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For MrMcD.....a better view of the manifold and carburetor setup on a Y block with YH sidedraft carburetors. One carburetor in the front and one in the rear. 
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KENO
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Posted: August-13-2024 at 8:28am |
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Here ya go 
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fanofccfan
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Posted: August-13-2024 at 8:21am |
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Wow! Very nice. I hope Ken can get them turned 90 degrees. My head cant crank and process!
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2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski
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MrMcD
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Posted: August-12-2024 at 11:08pm |
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Where do the Carburetors sit on that engine? That is quiet the manifold set up.
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MrMcD
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Posted: August-12-2024 at 6:16pm |
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MrMcD
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Posted: August-12-2024 at 6:11pm |
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Engine picture loaded, working on a picture of the boat. Two tries now and it looks like it loaded but rejects on the final step. It is a pretty boat and looks brand new. I will try again.
Edit: Keept throwing me an error, Error Inserting in current location? Finally on 4th try, after having to Re name the photo on each attempt because the system will not allow you to try twice with the same name. No idea why it finally worked but glad it did. This boat should be enjoyed by many. Too bad we did not have more photos to add. Brian sent these 2 photos hoping I could get them to show for you guys. ( should have sent them to Ken our resident expert )
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MrMcD
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Posted: August-12-2024 at 6:07pm |
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OK, attempt to show pictures of this fine boat in the Tahoe Show.
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67 ski nat
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Posted: August-10-2024 at 9:54am |
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Won and done. Congrats Brian
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MrMcD
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Posted: August-09-2024 at 4:02pm |
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Very Nice, glad they liked it. Maybe share a picture or two when things slow down.
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MourningWood
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Posted: August-09-2024 at 1:07pm |
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Touchdown!!!!!
In the water, still afloat. A couple leaks which required a quick shaft log reseal. Wasn’t prepared to be judged (in non judged class) but judges asked to. Turns out they loved the engine! Go figure! |
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1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun"
'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
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KENO
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Posted: August-07-2024 at 7:37am |
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This is it.................Down by 4 and 2 seconds to goand 4th and goal at the 2 yard line.
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67 ski nat
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Posted: August-03-2024 at 9:19am |
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Good luck in Tahoe. Bring home a trophy
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MourningWood
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Posted: August-02-2024 at 11:42pm |
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"Just finishing up the second coat now..."
"Now Biff..." "Sorry Mr. McFly. I mean just starting the second coat"
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1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun"
'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
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KENO
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Posted: August-01-2024 at 7:17am |
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uk1979
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Posted: July-26-2024 at 1:32pm |
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For others who look for it..
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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MrMcD
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Posted: July-22-2024 at 2:17am |
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Good Luck in Tahoe! Glad you got it running.
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MourningWood
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Posted: July-22-2024 at 1:18am |
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Got it all buttoned up, painted, even futzed with the carbs (YH Carters) because, well, they always need some futzin'. Put the hose to it, fired right up, runs and idles great!! Ran about 10 min. No leaks. Pop it back in tomorrow. Tahoe here we go.... Now, if I can figure photos I'll get some up here... Thanks again for all the support.
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1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun"
'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
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uk1979
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Posted: July-16-2024 at 4:17am |
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Great weekends work.. looks like you can go to the ball |
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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MrMcD
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Posted: July-15-2024 at 4:31pm |
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Wow, nice progress. Not an easy rebuild when no specs are available. Great Progress.
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MourningWood
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Posted: July-15-2024 at 12:51pm |
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Oh...I'll punch it in...Love that analogy...
As luck would have it, I reached out to the Lake Tahoe Concourse to check on my entry status....turns out I had completely forgotten to enter!! (that's what age 71 gets you)... They put me #1 on waiting list... Oh well, I can walk away from all this engine frustration for a while ...perverse relief. The next day..."Congratulations, you're in" F&%k me!!! Back under the gun! Sometimes irony can be pretty ironic!!
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1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun"
'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
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KENO
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Posted: July-15-2024 at 12:18pm |
The automotive normal rotation with it's 12 links between timing marks procedure also has #6 at TDC in firing position. Some other later much more popular engines have #6 in that position too when installing the cam/timing chain/gears. None of us know as much as we probably think we do As you said earlier, moving the ball downfield..................... first and 10 on the opponents 30 yard line.  Gotta score, a field goal won't do it.
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MourningWood
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Posted: July-15-2024 at 11:46am |
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IT'S ALIVE-ish!!
First, I never would have come this far without all the help given here. Many, many thanks. When I heard from Delta Cams that they had no info, and that the cam would have to be 'degreed in', that's what I did. Essentially I ended up making my own 'cam card'...apparenty the only one in the world  It was a process-engine together, engine apart, together, apart, upside down, cam out, cam in, retard a tooth, advance a tooth, rockers on, rockers off---yada yada... But during the degree-ing process I learned 3 important things: 1-only 12 degrees of valve overlap, (intake opens 7 degrees before TDC, exhaust closes 5 degrees ATDC  ) making it appear that #1 was in firing position when in fact was in valve overlap, because...2- when the timing marks line up correspondingly, #6 is actually in firing position.... 3- I don't know as much about engines as I once thought. Anyway, without water or charging system, just on the battery, I got it to fire up and run for a few seconds a couple of times. I feel confident to paint/finish reassembly and then run it in earnest before plopping it back in. Quite a journey. I'll get some pics up in a bit. Thanks again.
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1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun"
'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
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KENO wrote: