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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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Posted: November-06-2008 at 1:31pm |
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I ask for your experience and expertise in recommending a primer. The paint on my 66 mustang project is "almost" all gone and there's a bit of smoothing out to do yet. I have decided on imron for the paint. Input please? Talk me into it or talk me out of it.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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No chance of bringing back the original gel?
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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a good 2 part primer, omni is a good brand or Sherwin Williams. Imron is a brand name and is I believe an acrylic urethane. Talk to your paint supply guy. usually when i paint a boat I will spray a single stage paint on, and on the last coat will mix in a good clear 50/50, with the paint. the clear has UV protectors in it and will give you the shine. remember: you pay for what you get. talk to the supplier about painting your boat. not the painter because thats all a painter knows how to do is paint and really doesnt know the chemical logistics of the paints. weve painted boats 10 years ago and they still hold thier shine and look as if they were painted yesterday
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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I knew that I would be hearing from you regarding bringing it back.
I tossed the idea around quite a bit. The gel is really pitted up to where the water line would land. There are a few areas where the previous owner(s) tried repairing above that. I decided that painting would be the best option - for the mustang and myself. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Michelle,
Why Imron? Has the person doing your paint job done boats before? How versed is he with different paints? You may want to consider one of the linear polyurethanes that is more marine specific like Allgrip or Sterling. No matter who's paint you use, always use the paint manufacturers recommended primer system. If the gel has any stress cracking, they must be routed out and filled. No matter what the primer is, if the cranks aren't filled, they will with time telegraph through the paint. I've seen it in as little as several weeks after the paint is fully cured. Tim, She wants a different color! |
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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Pete - that's what I needed. I'll check into the allgrip and sterling. We truly do not have any professional (boat) painters in our area. I've learned alot on "this" site.
I do have a friend that owns a body shop and he referred a buddy of his to me. This guy has offered his time and expertise as far as painting and helping to strip the boat. He "donates" his spare evening time to help and he instructs me. I get to paint - he has all of the tools. Hard to believe - I know.he is becoming a fast friend of mine and my fiance's. I guess what I need to do is contact each company and request specifications on their products. I was hoping that a few of you guys could offer what you have used and "why" you prefer using the product. I know when I start receiving information, every company will say they are the best. I like hearing tried and true. Tim - when I first saw this mustang, I envisioned the colors I would like to see it. As I started stripping the paint, it didn't look so bad. I would stand back, look at it and the boat actually "smiled". That is till I hit the pitted and repair areas. I'm not crazy about the yucatan yellow, but I would have kept it original if it were in better shape. eric - what products have you used together as far as paint/primer. Are these boats kept in the water? The mustang will be trailered, but I want the quality of something that could be. Thanks guys |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Yucatan yellow? Thats a rare color! Post a pic of the boat as it sits. Unless there are a lot of gouges, I just dont see how it wouldnt be better to restore the gel. Its amazing what wetsanding and buffing can do for a finish. I just dont see a painted boat holding a nice looking finish as easily as gel, especially if you trailer all the time. |
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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Oh boy...that's opening a whole new can of worms. I will take a few updated pictures tonight and will post in the morning.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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You want it? You got it! Pete, I cant believe you dont have my back here! |
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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You guys don't know me well enough yet.
I will gather ALL of the information you can give me - paint, primer and including restoring the gel if it is possible and cost effective. Talk me into it or talk me out of it. I want to learn everything I can along the way.So, if I ask alot of questions, please be patient. Once I have all the options and opinions in hand, I will sit in a quiet room, go through everything and then make a final decision. Once I decide...it'll be final. |
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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BTW, Pete, it was smiling when I envisioned it painted too. thanks
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Tim, I did mention the re gelcoating threads back!! Michelle, Let me remind you that re gelcoating the boat is certainly the premium way of restoration. It is sprayed on like paint only very heavy. It's then wetsanded out and buffed. More work but the end result is basically a new boat. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Pete, lets wait for pics- theres no way to say if regelling is necessary, or if a few spot repairs and wetsanding/buffing would bring it back.
Michelle, kudos for doing your homework. |
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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alright gentlemen. I am running home on my lunch break to take pictures.Then you can tell me the whats and whys.
Yes, Pete. I do remember. Keep in mind that there are many items missing and some things that "are" on the boat are not original. Back in a bit. Chelle' |
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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back with pictures. I'll post one to check resize and then post others.Need to change camera date.
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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three more after these
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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last 3
ok...ready for input. As you can tell, it's still in progress as far as stripping. |
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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uh-oh! Did the pictures scare everyone away.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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I guess the first thing would be to finish stripping the paint.
Once you know exactly what you have to work with, then you can make a decision. The pictures arent very big, but assuming there are only a few repaired patches, restoring the gel might not be too bad of a task. Remove the rest of the paint and get us some better pictures! That Yucatan yellow has a lot of potential, by the way- I like it. I love my Inca Gold despite its ugliness... you dont see many boats like it- probably because most people were smart enough not to order a boat that color in the first place! I say keep the yellow- it will grow on you. Long live the vintage colors! |
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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Tim, what causes the bubbling in the first two pictures? How do you repair that?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Michelle,
The "bubbling" looks like blistering but it's hard to tell from the pictures. Tim's correct to see if you can get some more paint off. Consider going at it with a random orbit sander now with some fine paper like 220 grit. Don't get carried away - you just want remove more of the paint to get to the gel. Blistering is very common on older boats with the early polyester resins. It usually occurs when the boat sits in the water for long times. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Michelle, the blisters are osmotic- gelcoat is porous and will absorb water. CC technically recommends that boats not be left in the water without a protective bottom paint for this reason- but the blisters are purely cosmetic. Some boats seem very perceptable to this, and some dont- I dont know why. Our '92 was only left in the water 1 season and it developed a few blisters below the waterline a few years later. My Skier sat in the water for 25+ years and it doesnt have a blister on it.
Edit: Pete beat me to it. Pete, can blisters be sanded flat? Just curious. I would imagine that buffing the gel out would make them much harder to see, anyways. |
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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How do you repair the blistering? Sanding, fill and re-gel or sanding, fill and primer/paint? The starboard side is pretty much done. The port side is still in progress. The mustang looks like it has a case of chicken pox. I've gotten this far and I want to do everything right.
I guess I'm trying to make the big decision based on "if" I paint. This is probably a stupid question, but I know nothing about gel coat. Please don't put this in the ebayhole post. Can I re-gel in a different color? How would I even match the yucatan? You know the old saying about having a strong foundation. Our 82 Nautique doesn't have a blister and we dock it all summer. We won't be docking the Mustang. |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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I painted my previous boat (25 yrs ago) with Imron & it held up well. If you do this yourself, get a fresh air hood. It's nasty stuff to breathe, will ruin your health even with a charcoal respirator.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Yes be very careful it uses the same chemicals as superglue and will kill you if you breath in too much. The only way to go is with a hood with supplied air,there is no filter made that will keep the fumes out. Check with your supplier I think Imron can be applied with no primer.I did the transom of my Dad's Shamrock a number of years ago,with no primer and it's held up very well,but it's never left in the water and it's not below the waterline. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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The blistering is caused by moisture intrusion into the base resin (hull) below the gel coat. (polyester resin is hygroscopic) Then to my understanding that a reaction takes place between the gel and the hull that develops pressure popping off the gel. They must be routed out and filled.
Tim's correct that some boats will do it and others won't and there's no explanation why. Charlie (Brady) has a 70 Cuda and it's bottom has lots of blistering - never sat in the water - alway hung out of the water in a boathouse. Sometimes the blistering is so bad that the entire gel needs to be removed. Gary (farmer) did one of his not to long ago. Gary, you still have a couple of the pictures? I couldn't fint the thread. Re gelcoating can be done in any color just like paint. |
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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Good news is that it is Friday.
I am interested in seeing what Gary (farmer) started with and ended with. I did make one decision and I'm sure I will hear Tim screaming. I AM changing the color. As I was removing paint last night, I had a nice long talk with him (as it's not a "her" Mustang) and he and I are both very happy with the color change decision. I am going to reverse the colors of the Nautique for the Mustang. I will continue my research and hopefully will be able to hear from Gary regarding the steps he took with the blistering and the results he had. I want the blisters "gone". This is alot of work and prep and I do not mind hard work. I want to do it right and be proud of the end result. So....next step is removing blisters, making repairs to the existing and final decision re: gel or paint. Can the existing gel be gelled over with the new color(s)? Must I create a rough surface if re-gel? Chelle' |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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I had you in my mind as a big burly flannel wearing woman that loves boats
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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Isn't it funny how we picture people?
We are really involved in boating. I am the VP of the regatta and boating, skiing, boarding...water sports are our entire summer. Hunting takes presidence in the winter months. Hence, I am very excited about my new project. This will make the very cold winter not seem so bad. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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are those airguide guages?
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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