And so it begins... |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Posted: April-15-2009 at 12:47am |
More horse power for your motor…$1,500
Supplies for new stringers…….$1,000 Having your wife approve buying more tools to do the job….PRICELESS!!!! So it begins, I took the motor out for the new heads, camshafts, high rise manifold ect. (Thanks Eric, He was tired of working those crappy Chevy’s so I gave him a nice Ford to work on) While the motor was out I kept thinking about the stringers. Now my floor was solid no soft spots, the main stringers sounded solid (tapping with hammer) but the secondary’s had some fiberglass cracking off. The wood was solid when poked with a screwdriver, but I thought to myself I can’t be the only one with a 24 year old boat that is dry and solid. So out came the carpet in one piece (that one surprised me) then off came the floor for some exploratory surgery. Sure enough the foam was soaked on the bottom inch or so and dry on top. The more foam I pulled out the more water I found. Now this boat hasn’t been in the water since Sept last year, it did get some snow melt in it when the cover got 12” of snow on it then rain caused it to sag in and the water got in. So as with others the foam was soaked. Then I started removing the fiberglass from the secondary stringers. I was pleasantly surprised that only where the glass had separated was the wood only slightly wet the rest looked like new. I love Correct Crafts that’s why I own two, but I have to say that they could have done a better job then they did. I found a block of wood lying on the hull and the foam poured right over top of it, of course it was totally saturated. The second thing I found was when they lagged the platform braces on they missed the area supported with the extra plywood. I assume that’s where they where supposed to go. The third was the original fiberglass wrap on the secondary’s under the floor was paper thin. (One coat of light weight glass) So this is step one of the process. I will keep you guy’s updated as I go. I hope it will be a short story not a novel !! The start The easy way to remove foam The lags between the extra ply(above the stringer) The thin fiberglass This is the inboard side ofthe stringer. It doesn't even touch the hull and the gap was full of wet foam. Here's the block of wood they foamed over. That's it for now more to follow. |
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kapla
Grand Poobah Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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that foam came out neatly!!! keep us updated with your progress
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<a href="">1992 ski nautique
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Morfoot
Grand Poobah Joined: February-06-2004 Location: South Lanier Status: Offline Points: 5320 |
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HEY! That's where I left that block of wood.
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"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Paul,
I'm glad you dug into the boat farther and are taking on this project. I feel it's common for someone to feel his stringers are in good shape just because they are still solid. It's really not the case and the reason I always suggest using a hole saw to remove the glass in as many spots as possible to take a look. The dark staining of the wood and the delamination of the glass are classic indicators of rot but just not to the point of the wood falling apart. The water has been in there. The rot has started but then the wood dried out below the point it would support the rot. The rot spores are still there just waiting for more moisture to start up again. Keep the pictures coming. Nice work on the foam! |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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I thought this was a topic about a boat sinking
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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ryanowen
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2008 Location: Detroit Status: Offline Points: 284 |
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I'm looking at just about the exact same thing as you on my 88. I'm laughing about the block of wood. I found several scraps in my foam, including the exact same piece you pictured here in the exact same spot. I also have the paper thin glass on the secondaries. There is about 6 inch section on the one below the drivers seat with no glass on one side at all! Good luck! |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3363 |
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guess I finally see the purpose of foam; to hide the workmanship.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Online Points: 5779 |
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I still can't believe this wood crap continued on through 1993. For the life of me I can't see how it took them 10 years to catch up with their main competition and eliminate it altogether. For having such a good reputation for a well built boat they sure got by with slipping a lot under the rug(or foam).
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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I cannot believe how nicely the foam came out... Mine was brutal to remove.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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I would use CPES on the stringers now and refoam and glass over the bad spots. Looks like you caught it early so getting the water out drying it out a little more then going back with the CPES well seal everything back up and make it a little stronger, then your ready to pour more foam and glass the floor back in.
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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That's exactly what I'm going to do but there's NO FOAM going back in this boat!!!! I'm going to add some extra support instead of foam. I don't believe that we can make these things water tight enough to keep the foam dry. I have an idea on a way to do a partial foam though that should let the foam breath which should allow it to dry when it gets wet. I'll post pic's of the mock up in a few days. That way I can get some input from the ol'wise one's on here. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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Thought all you need to do is use closed cell foam and it wasn't an issue (water absorbtion). Tim had mentioned on another thread that it is needed for structural support, granted you sound like you adding some extra supports but it might just be easier and quicker to do the right type of foam instead.
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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I had that same "scrap" peice of wood in mine. Any chance they put it there for some unknown reason. Haven't dug into the other side yet, is it there also?
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sanity
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 799 |
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Paul,
You are moving along! When did you have sunshine? I'm not that far away and I'm ready to build an ark. I found change under the foam. Of course I saved them all, as they were "original" 60's cents. I have to keep an eye on your progress and see what your idea is for foam. I do not want to put the foam back in the mustang either. My plan is to use the pool noodles. Chelle' Hey...I just thought of something. Is this why I own the 82 now ??? |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Yall just wait until it's back like it should be. 20 years is hard on most things, and my bet is that you'll get a ride you won't believe after it's all said and done.
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Fl Inboards
Grand Poobah Joined: January-20-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2119 |
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Hi their.
After working and being part of the design team at CC for the last 18 years the statement of the foam is a structural support is an un true. The Foam is a means for the hull to pass specific requirements that is imposed upon the manufacturer so that it will float if swamped and or extreemly damaged. To use the foam as support mechanism for items like the floor or bulkheads is more the norm. I personally do not put foam back in restringered boats that have wood componets such as Main or secondary stringers. Fiberglass is porous and will retain water in foamed in places. I have been pushing the Coosa products for all structural replacement such as Floors and secondary stringers. look into it I think you will be suprised at what you will find. Great product. Glad to see the wood stringers and other componets in your project in decent shape. Correct Crafts are and were built tough. |
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Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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I am going to add some additional support for two reasons.
1) To add a little more support from the secondary to the hull wall. Hoping it will help fend off those pesky stress cracks. 2) Without the foam I'll need something to help support the floor. As for the flotation controversy, if it's sealed water tight it will create air pockets which will aid in the floating. There is a lot of foam in the top of the stern, bow and under the gunnel's. I think rot is more of a problem than sinking. And if it would sink hell that's what I pay insurance for. |
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ryanowen
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2008 Location: Detroit Status: Offline Points: 284 |
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With your Coosa replacements, how are you supporting the floor? Do you have some pics of your builds? I read through JoeinNY's build thread and he added ribs out to the hull wall. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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you always have to go back to the root of the cause, it was never meant for structure in a CC but may have been utilized as part of the structure because it was drawn up around the foam, it may have been a bonus for structure but thats it. the bad outweighs the good, these different opinions will help you decide your boats destiny., if i have a triple by-pass im gonna stay away from Mc Donalds.
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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There's nothing that could keep me from Mickey dee's.
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Gun-Driver,
Your re-build looks very clean compared to my two boats! Your foam came out very clean, unlike the baseball size chunks I pulled out! What tool did you use to remove the floor from the hull of the boat. I have been hacking away with a circular saw but am not able to get close to the sides. How itchy have you been the last few days? I've got the stuff between my fingers and it's driving me CRAZY!!! |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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I usded a 7" cordless circular to cut my glass floor away from the sides. I left an inch or two around the edge. Later on, I took a sawzall along the hull, flexing a long, fine-toothed blade. It took a very clean cut and removed the remaining strip almost perfectly.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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ryanowen
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2008 Location: Detroit Status: Offline Points: 284 |
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I've been using a diamond blade on my angle grinder and my dremel for tight spots. Zips right through, just need to be careful with it. Really haven't been itching much at all though. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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I used a circular along the sides with a guide set at about 2". Set the blade so it just barely goes through the glass.(be very careful toward the rear as the hull comes in under the floor about two inches. (DON'T CUT TO DEEP IN THE BACK)
Along the stringer and in the round corner in the rear, I used my metabo 4" grinder with a diamond blade and again just cut deep enough to cut the glass. Then a thin pry bar and a block of wood to pry off. Floor came off in one piece because I was going to re-glass it back down. With the foam I used the hand saw to cut along the sides all the way to the bottom then again using the flat pry bar pried it out in blocks, it even worked in the small gap between the two one-bys of the stringer. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Day two on the '85 floor project. The port side seemed drier than the other but that could be due to the fact that the sun hits that side.
Floor off on the port side. The wood up front was in good condition. I think the design flaw lies in the battery box area. The bulk head where the hoses came through was like a dam. Everything in that area was completely saturated. That area will be redesigned when I put it back together. I was wondering how I got stress cracks when my stringers were in good shape?? Then I saw where the floor separated from the wall exactly where the stress cracks are. I think that the stress cracks are caused more by floor separation than soft stringers. So after two day's at about four hours a day this is where the projects stands. Oh I can't forget about my little helper. She loves getting to use her tool belt. She's helping cut out the foam. More to follow. |
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79TiqueRebuild
Senior Member Joined: January-21-2009 Location: Kansas City, Mo Status: Offline Points: 238 |
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Now we know who actually got the foam to come out so nice. Your little helper with her saw...
The job looks real good I'm taking notes. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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A couple quick questions for the stringer/boat guru's.
1) Can I use the 635 3:1 epoxy to laminate boards together. 2)Would it be better to use maple instead of pine for the addional supports I'm putting in. 3)Would it be better to use 1x8's like original for the front floor, instead of 3/4 plywood. I would think plywood would absorb water more than regular dimensional lumber. That's it for now . My CPES should be here Thur. so hope to start coating the existing stringers where needed this weekend. |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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I cannot believe how clean your daughter can get foam out. Wish she was around when I did mine. Must be her saw.
For adhering boards together I put some high density filler in the epoxy, to the consistency of peanut butter. I used West, but whichever you are using will have something like that. i think for the secondaries and support boards it is ok to use other wood besides the fir. However, I did use fir on all of mine. Once you epoxy and CPES the plywood it should prevent water absorption entirely. There seems to be a beer in only two of your photos. This will not do. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Slayer,
I'm not replacing any of the stringers they're all fine I just need to grind off the loose glass, coat with CPES and re-glass them with heavier glass than from the factory. What my plan is to put ribs in from the secondaries out to where the floor meets the walls. I'm doing this because I'm not putting foam back in and the bottom doesn't seem to be as thick as in between the main stringers. Also I will need support for the floor. I plan on using 1/4" luan wrapped in glass for the new floor. I just thought maple would be a little stronger than pine for the ribs and more resistant to future moisture. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Well the first of my supplies arrived yesterday, the CPES. I purchased it from Rot Doctor it was about $30 cheaper than Jamestown and arrived in two day's.
Hopefully the weather will hold out for me this weekend and I can grind the loose glass off the existing stringers and start applying the CPES. More to come... |
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