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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dsla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: more alignment
    Posted: August-27-2009 at 11:01pm
I am checking my alignment and obviously have an issue. When I separate the shaft coupling from the transmission, the prop shaft drops down .030" and right .013"     When I spin the prop, with the shaft separated, it spins easier, but still not super easy. So, I measured the gap on the aft end of the strut, and left to right, the difference appears to be less than 1/64 of an inch. The gap on the bottom is 1/32 less than the gap on the top. Is that enough out of center to make the prop bind, or is it centered well enough to align the motor in this position? The shaft doesn't seem to be bent, because the gap is the consistent when I spin the prop.

I have to figure out how to resize pics before I can post them...sorry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-27-2009 at 11:08pm
DSla - If your gap between the strut & shaft is not the same top vs. bottom, I would say the strut bushings are worn out. Since you have it partially apart, I would replace the bushings. Search for 'Shaft removal' & 'strut bushing replacement' in the forums - this procedure is well documented. After you get it back together & aligned well, you will be able to spin the prop with your finger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-27-2009 at 11:39pm
Dan,
I know Chris (SNobsessed) went though this issue way back as well and he has brought up some important things that need to be checked out. You really need to think about prop shaft/engine alignment really starts at the strut. The strut is really the item on the boat that needs to be lined up first to the hull. Get a new cutlass bearings in it and then see if the prop shaft is pretty centered with the hull hole/log/stuffing box and from there go to the trans/engine. From what you have described, you really need to look at the strut first.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dsla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2009 at 3:16am
Thanks guys, I will dig deeper and hopefully find where the issue is.   I really appreciate the help. I am sure I will have many more questions in the coming days. Since I am going to replace the shaft & packing gland, would it be wise to put dripless packing in, or is the original wax better?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2009 at 10:26am
I like dripless, personal choice though
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2009 at 10:30am
I can't see any advantage to the old style wax packing material (vs. Gore-tex) except you could save like $3. The gore-tex works very well for me, I might have 12 oz. of water in the bilge from an afternoon of boarding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ryanowen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2009 at 11:45am
Originally posted by dsla dsla wrote:

Thanks guys, I will dig deeper and hopefully find where the issue is.   I really appreciate the help. I am sure I will have many more questions in the coming days. Since I am going to replace the shaft & packing gland, would it be wise to put dripless packing in, or is the original wax better?


My logic was since I already had it apart, I might as well order a dripless seal. I can't comment on how well it works yet, but installing the new seal was, by far, the easiest part of the entire alignment process.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2009 at 11:54am
dripless seals are maintanance free, set em and forget em, all the high end boats use dripless, nice option...btw, they dont drip at all.
alot of manufacturers use them because alot of times because of the placement of the log thaty area doesnt get alot of water and the old stuffing box will run hot. with the dripless you have a constant water supply
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dsla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2009 at 12:20pm
Sounds like dripless is the way I want to go. Thanks for the info. I believe this is what I need. Dripless Packing I will try and get it at my local dealer if they have it, so I can work on it tomorrow or monday. Will it eliminate that black rubber log then, or does it just attach where the packing gland nut currently is? If it eliminates the log, does the invertaflo muffler need to be removed for easier installation, or can it be done with it installed?

Eric, thanks for the help yesterday, I really appreciate it. Looks like a one day task turned into a little more fun, but what fun would a boat be if all you could do was ski behind it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ryanowen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2009 at 12:27pm
FWIW, I ended up ordering an OJ. Had a couple questions about the install and called a fellow named Tim at OJ. Super helpful and just a nice guy in general. Here it is, not totally done in this pic, but something to look at anyway.

Up to you where you buy it, but you get a 10% discount and no tax at Skidim.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote behindpropeller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2009 at 12:35pm
I have the tool to get the strut bearing out if you want to borrow it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dsla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-01-2009 at 6:00pm
Thanks for the reply's everyone. I appreciate the help. I have a few pictures and some questions.

Here is the misalignment


Here is the strut




Here is the through-hull




Here is the full view


Now the questions...
1) Where the shaft goes through the strut, it is obviously at an angle, but does the through-hull look like it is centered well enough top to bottom? Does it appear that I may have to shim the strut?

2) It appears from the strut and through-hull that it is aligned left to right properly, am I correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dsla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-01-2009 at 6:12pm
I am going to order my bushing today, but I just have one more question. The strut is 6-1/4 inches long front to back. Is this the normal length, or might this be a replacement strut? It doesn't appear to have any damage around it in the gel. Also, I am assuming it means I must go with the two piece bushing.

Also, Discount Inboard Marine was saying that they have had people complaining about a lot of play with the XPC bushings. I have read some reviews, and they all seem positive. So, has anyone had any problems with extra play, or would it be better to get the brass?

Thanks again everyone for your help. And behindpropeller, I appreciate the removal tool offer, but I think I will try cutting it out first. If it doesn't work, I may take you up on the offer, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-01-2009 at 7:51pm
Dan,
Looks like you will need two alignments! The hull hole/log looks good but yes, the strut needs to be shimmed. Stainless washers between the base and hull at the aft two bolts should do it. Don't forget the 5200 or 4200! Then you'll go up front and do the engine matching it up to the shaft.

You really shouldn't have a issues with the hull being a 96. I wonder if the bad strut alignment came from the factory that way??? Laser alignment tool at the factory?? Marketing BS!!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ryanowen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-02-2009 at 11:33am
Originally posted by dsla dsla wrote:


Also, Discount Inboard Marine was saying that they have had people complaining about a lot of play with the XPC bushings. I have read some reviews, and they all seem positive. So, has anyone had any problems with extra play, or would it be better to get the brass?


I think either would be fine. I went with the XPC and if you slip them on over the drive shaft before you press them in the strut they do seem like they have a little play. Once you press them in though, they seem to compress a bit. Mine doesn't have much at all right now. If you do get the XPC bushings, don't bother with the set screws. All they did for me was bind the drive shaft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dsla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2010 at 4:24am
I finally got around to this project. I got the prop shaft out and took it down to Cecil at Elbert's. He put it on v blocks and the shaft was .005 out of tolerance between the strut and the transmission coupling. Aft of the strut it was .022, so I ended up buying an A.R.E. double taper shaft. Think its worth it to straighten this shaft and using it as a back up? If not, anyone looking for a coupling?

The strut was definitely misaligned.   I am currently fine tuning that right now. I have both boat life's life seal and 3M 5200. Is one a better seal for this application, or doesn't it really matter? I'm not sure if I want to be cursing myself out while drinking a 12 pack if this ever needs to be removed again! Also, it appears that my front height adjustment on the engine is almost maxxed out. Can the top retaining nut be above slightly above the threads? I am trying to post a pic but am having trouble shrinking it. I will post when I get to my other computer.

Thanks for your help, it is greatly appreciated!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dsla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2010 at 4:32am
Here is the picture.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2010 at 9:15am
Dan,
I don't know why you've run out of adjustment on the mounts but instead of running it past the normal point, add a 1/4" aluminum plate under the mount.

I'd go with the 5200 over the Boatlife polysulfide. Better sealing and better adhesion.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2010 at 10:06am
very unusual to see the trunion that high on the mount, the engine will have a tendency to teeter and move, remember you also need even pressure on all 4 mounts, or 1 mount may be doing more work. halway up the mount is normal....do some more checking i think you may find another problem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2010 at 10:08am
you still can maintain good alignment by bringing that side down and the other side up...your definitely overlooking something
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dsla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2010 at 4:38pm
Thanks guys. I'm not sure why its that high either. I have not touched anything on the mounts yet, that is the way it came from the previous owner. I looked at right front and it has about a half inch more.

To align this stuff up, I am first aligning the strut, making sure the shaft goes dead center through the through-hull log on both ends, then seeing how it lines up with the engine, and moving the engine from there. Before I seal anything, I am going to have it completely aligned. I will post pics when I have the "dry fit" complete. It may be a week, since my schedule and my help's schedule don't line up.

Is there something else, I should be looking at? The shim required on the strut is about 1/16 of an inch on the back two holes of the strut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2010 at 4:55pm
by dropping the motor down it's going to raise the rear of the shaft since it will pivot about the thru hull stuffing box. Those mounts should only be about 1/4 of the way up from the lowest position. Currently it's way to high and out of wack so it's useless trying to shim the strut, replace the bushings in the strut, drop the engine and then work on the alignment issue.

Also since the bushing is worn it looks like it's not centered in the strut so it' needs replaced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dsla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2010 at 5:11pm
Glad I asked, or I would have been doing this twice! I just replaced the strut bushing a couple days ago, so it is new. So, if the shaft doesn't go dead nuts through the center of the through hull, it not a big deal, but should be as close as posible?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2010 at 5:14pm
so was the picture with the new bushing installed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dsla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2010 at 5:24pm
No, that was with the old bushing and alignment. It took two hands to spin the prop. That is what made me look into all this.

edit: the picture of the strut is the old set up. The height adjuster pic is where it was originally. With the new bushing and the strut aligned so the shaft is centered on the through hull, appears it may have to go higher. So, thats why I am a little concerned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2010 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by dsla dsla wrote:

No, that was with the old bushing and alignment. It took two hands to spin the prop. That is what made me look into all this.

edit: the picture of the strut is the old set up. The height adjuster pic is where it was originally. With the new bushing and the strut aligned so the shaft is centered on the through hull, appears it may have to go higher. So, thats why I am a little concerned.


Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Dan,
Looks like you will need two alignments! The hull hole/log looks good but yes, the strut needs to be shimmed. Stainless washers between the base and hull at the aft two bolts should do it. Don't forget the 5200 or 4200! Then you'll go up front and do the engine matching it up to the shaft.


Strut first to the shaft log/packing gland then the engine to the shaft.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-30-2010 at 10:07am
a good gauge when a boat is perfectly aligned is when you can take your index finger (with the strut lubed) and spin the prop with your one finger easily..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dsla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-30-2010 at 4:14pm
Thanks guys, I will continue with the original plan starting with the strut, and work with the engine after that.

Eric, the way it is spinning freely now, compared to the old strut and shaft, I think that goal will be met!   

When I bought the boat, I talked to an inboard repair shop and they were telling me as long as there is no vibration, and it will spin at all, its good. Maybe I should reconsider any advice they give me! Anyway, I appreciate all your help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-30-2010 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by dsla dsla wrote:

When I bought the boat, I talked to an inboard repair shop and they were telling me as long as there is no vibration, and it will spin at all, its good. Maybe I should reconsider any advice they give me!

Dan,
You caught on to the fact that this shop really shouln't be giving advice like this!! Vibration can come from typically a bent shaft, a bad cutlass, a bad prop or even a loose prop on it's taper. I've found that misalignment will not initially cause vibration until it's ground out the cutlass, the coupling (fretted) or chewed up the tail end of the trans. If you think about misalingment from the standpoint of binding the shaft in the cutlass, it's actually dampening vibration.

Maybe this shop is slow and needs some work!

Keep us informed on how the whole alignment goes.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dsla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-05-2010 at 10:47pm
Well, I got the strut aligned with the through hull, then aligned the engine and had .000 gap all around! The shaft spins great. I then removed the strut to apply 5200 and found some stress cracks. I drilled them out, and am going to seal them. I didn't tighten the bolts that much either. They were just snug. Do you guys think more will come? Any ideas how to avoid more or fix the problem??? Thanks!
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