Winterizing Question |
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2000CanadaAirNAutiqu
Newbie Joined: September-14-2009 Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Posted: October-19-2009 at 2:13am |
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I'm the new owner of a 2000Air Nautique. I winterized it today, I ran it in the driveway for about 10min, then I drained all the water out of the 5 plugs. I ran 5 gallons of RV antifreeze throught it, I unhooked the inlet and used that to run it through. The bucket went dry and it ran for a few seconds with no Anti-Freeze running through. Will this be sufficent for the winter. Or is there a way I can add more antifreeze to make sure all is good. It is a GT-40 EFI. And how do you winterize the ballest tanks?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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With all the water drained out, 0 gallons of antifreeze would be fine. Some drain only and have no problems. I only use about a 1/2 gallon per boat simply as a extra "just in case" there's some water still in a block. 5 gallons is just wasting money.
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trihartsfield
Groupie Joined: July-10-2009 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Can someone direct me to an older post on step by step winterizing. I have a 1970 Barracuda with a 318 and want to get it winterized.
Also any information on what I need to add to the gas and to the carb. Thanks Chris |
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Chris
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Chris,
Go into the reference section and find the Chrysler manual. Download it as you should have it anyway. You'll find a section in it on layup and it will show you all the drain locations. However, the 318 has the typical plugs on each side of the block, one in each exhaust manifold and then one at the bottom of the RWP. |
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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You ran it through by the raw water pump? If the thermostat isn't open, it will just spit it out the exhaust. I catch mine in buckets and recycle until I have hot antifreeze coming out the exhaust. I take the belt off the raw water pump. I don't mess with fogging, I just crank it about once a month and let it run about 10 seconds. That keeps the carb from drying out and everything lubed on the inside.
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Tim D
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WhiteLakeSkier
Senior Member Joined: July-03-2009 Location: White Lake, NY Status: Offline Points: 197 |
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Catching antifreeze in buckets until the engine is hot sounds like an incredible amount of work for no reason. At the marina, we run the motor on water until it is all warmed up, change the oil, and then run it again. you can tell if the thermostat is open by feeling the housing until it is toasty. you can also generally assume that it is open after a while of running the motor. When you have determined the thermostat to be open, water to the engine is turned off, and 5 gal of antifreeze (-100F) is turned on and let run through the engine. while it is running through, we like to fog the motor. when the antifreeze is almost out, you fog the hell out of it and choke it out. finished. I do not understand why antifreeze is such a waste of money and unnecessary. I personally cannot afford to risk not draining the motor completely or something unforeseen happening and ruining the motor. a 100 gallons of antifreeze is a hell of a lot cheaper than a new engine.
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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You have x-ray vision? You know when it is open? I want some of that NY -100F antifreeze.
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Tim D
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WhiteLakeSkier
Senior Member Joined: July-03-2009 Location: White Lake, NY Status: Offline Points: 197 |
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It is open when the boat has warmed to normal operating tempature. to maintain the tempature, the thermostat must be open for cooling. I suppose you could remove the thermostat all together if you doubt it being open. -100 im sure can be found anywhere. we get it in 55 gallon barrels. good stuff
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WhiteLakeSkier
Senior Member Joined: July-03-2009 Location: White Lake, NY Status: Offline Points: 197 |
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I believe it is -100 not only because it is quite cold in the adirondacks, but also as backup should some water remain in the engine when running the antifreeze and dilute it. I would also, discourage going to the exhaust and collecting the liquid that comes out when you switch over to pure antifreeze for reuse. I would imagine it is diluted. but if you can afford the risk do what you wish i suppose, same goes for simply draining.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Michael,
I've been around alot longer than yourself. I'd like to tell you that draining only was the normal proceedure since the advent of the water cooled engine up until I'd say the early 70's. Some marinas and many individuals still drain only. Why do you discourage the practice? The use of antifreeze certainly became popular when problems came up with cracked blocks, manifolds, etc. It is added insurance so hopefully there won't be a problem. Some will say using using all that antifreeze is so the block will completely fill and add corrosion protection. Does it really do much good? You will never get it completely full especially by pumping. Also keep in mind plain old water sits in it all summer. Waste of money? Yes if more is used than is needed. Of course the marinas don't care - what's the going rate for winterizing at your marina?? Now, that's a real waste of money when a capable individual can do it himself. I still feel the pour in method is just as easy if not easier as the pump through. You still need to remove a hose but you don't need to mess with buckets. The real plus is you don't need to worry about the thermostat being open. The antifreeze will backfill via the block lower porting. Think about this: What happens when the cold antifreeze hits the T stat? Tim is over coming the problem by recirculation hot antifreeze. Lots of work, yes! |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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free advice from guys that do this for a living is priceless...
when you decipher the meaning of winterizing you drain and anti-freeze if you like... draining the block is insurance so it wont freeze and crack, anti-freezing the block is for rust protection, plain and simple. if i didnt get 2 hundred bucks to winterize the the engines i surely wouldnt waste the anti-freeze. for many many years on my own boats i never once used anti-freeze, no need for it. to this day all the left over boats in my lots simply get drained and thats it. AGAIN, as long as you get the cavity emptied of the water it cant freeze and expand, if any is left at the bottem it will expand to the empty area. I always made it a habit to leave my plugs out until spring, there is way to much worrying over nothing...now if the conversation was about "hey will it be allright to leave the water in the engine" then we would have something to discuss. get the water out of the blocks and manifolds at the miniumum and you will not have anything to worry about....or pay someone |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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Collecting the antifreeze in two buckets and pouring into a 5 gallon bucket and sitting that bucket in the boat and sticking a hose in it and cranking the boat and letting it pull that out of the bucket say about three times takes about 10 minutes max. Wow, you call that work. I also check the freezing point on that which comes out. The thermostat doesn't stay open very long, I like to make sure what's inside and it has mixed with the water already in the boat, which has ran on a fake a lake long enough that I have seen steam a least twice. If you hold your hand in the water coming out the back, you can tell when the thermostat has opened, and it's not very long. I've done it this way since 1989.
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Tim D
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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I absolutely cannot believe people (and marinas! gasp) will pump A/F through a block w/o draining the water first. This is incredibly dangerous, no matter how long you've been doing it successfully for. While guys like Tim have a great understanding of their boat and have a feel (no pun intended) for when the t-stat is open, someone reading your posts or watching you winterize your boat might not. Those are the guys that will damage their engines thinking they did it right.
Draining the block and cast iron pyramind manifolds gives you an opportunity to remove the rust and scale from your cooling system. |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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I winterize a friend's Wildcat as he has gotten too old to do it himself anymore. He has operated and maintained heavy equipment all his life. He bought the Wildcat new in 1966 and always winterized it by sucking anti freeze through the through hull. One year after doing it this way for over 20 years his thermostat didn't open up and now he has Ford rather than Chrysler power because he cracked his block.
I drain and pour anti freeze in through the thermostat housing. After I drain the water, I re install the plugs and pour a 1/2 gallon in and drain the anti freeze out. Then I re install the plugs and fill with antio freeze. |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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I presume Tim is using automoptive AF. I used to do this too, and not drain. I also recycled a couple times. I found that to be a pain in the ass, but to each his own. I always tested the output of the exhaust with a AF tester.
A couple seasons ago I switched to draining and using RV antifreeze. No brainer. It is way safer, way cheaper, and way easier. RV AF is also not nearly as nasty as automotive. I can agree on the pour in method on a direct drive, but not a Vdrive. Last year I paid some crazy West Marine price for -80 purple stuff. This year the -50 pink stuff was $2.80 ga. at Home Depot. I totally understand that drain only was the practice for decades. I learned to keep my blocks antifreezed many years ago and will continue the practice. I think it is different with a 6 month layup, versus frequently cycled water like during the summer. Just my comfort level. Last year I think someone suggested making a permanent sticky thread in the common questions section about this topic. It gets a ton of discussion every Fall, and there are many threads, almost always culminating in a debate. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I'd like to add that testing the freeze protection is a critical step if not draining and using the pump through method. If using standard AF, you can use the standard hydrometer but with RV, you must use a refractometer.
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WhiteLakeSkier
Senior Member Joined: July-03-2009 Location: White Lake, NY Status: Offline Points: 197 |
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I would drain my block if I could afford a new one should it not completely work. generally people that have boats have enough money where a couple hundred dollars is not much to winterize there toy. I think it is easier to hook up a hose and be done with it. forget fooling around with buckets or finding all the plugs and then pouring in AF. the temp of the incoming water does not dictate whether or not the thermostat is open. if the engine is warm, it is open. if it never opens since it is really cold out, then just remove it. I dont use af for corrosion protection. it will corrode regardless. i think people would do a lot of things themselves. no one has the time to do everything, it is easier to pay someone. none of our blocks in 200 boats have cracked each year. we make money off of the using the antifreeze. Also, we have many boats to do in a short time. af is also better insurance for us, we cannot risk cracking customer's blocks. We lose money, and I personally would never bring my boat back to a marina that could not winterize properly.
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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one thing i am afraid to do is not drain and just pull antifreeze in, to risky, it is possible to get a pocket of water that wont mix with the AF.
i drain them and use 2 gallons of anti-freeze which keeps the cost down or I would use 4 times the amount of AF, thats me though. at the minimum draining the block is sufficient to avoid a cracked block |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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Not draining prior to using RV antifreeze is just idiotic.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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M3Fan
Grand Poobah Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
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As Pete mentioned, if the blocks drained of water then A/F will fill the block whether the T-stat is open or not. FWIW I drain mine, then throw a hose on the trans cooler input leading into a 5 gal bucket of AF. Start the boat, shut it off when it's empty. Nothing comes out the exhausts- everything just fills up nicely. Then I fog the cylinders individually (GT40 EFI). I also blow out the heater and blow some AF into it specifically for good measure. This year I was a moron and left one of my quick disconnects for the heater disconnected while the engine sucked up the A/F- quite the spill of A/F in my driveway. I use Sierra PG-based A/F. |
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2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Where's the drain plug to let the water out of my water soaked foam in the floor????
How do I add antifreeze to the water soaked foam in the floor, I dont want it to freeze and seperate from the wall like it did in the past???? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Some of us don't have the money! People coming to this site are asking for help so, as Mike put it, your advice is "idiotic"
You just don't seem to get the point! Even if you are using -100F RV, how do you really know if it has completely mixed? Do you use a refractometer to check any of the mix in the block?
Well now you've added a extra step to the process!! Remove the T stat housing and then what? Go get a new gasket! R&R the T stat twice!!
Time? Many will make the time especially when the marinas charge so much!! Have you ever seen the procedures as printed in the engine manuals? Maybe you should get in touch with Indmar, PCM, Chrysler, Interceptor, Graymarine, Crusader, Chris Craft and Mercruiser and set them straight!! BTW, most computers have what is called the "shift" key. It changes the first letter of sentences to capitals!! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Pete, I think Bruce's example says it all, wouldnt you agree? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Absolutely! |
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tullfooter
Grand Poobah Joined: March-02-2007 Location: White Lake, MI Status: Offline Points: 2225 |
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I'm with Joel, but I drain the block, then suck up the pink, but then I drain it again. I know, it's a waste of $10 of pink stuff, but why not. And I fog the carb as the last bit of pink leaves the bucket.
Gun-driver How come I have this picture in my mind of your boat, in a huge jar of AV, looking like a pickle. |
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Play hard, life's not a trial run.
'85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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That was for Eric...I know how he likes the foam!!!!
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WhiteLakeSkier
Senior Member Joined: July-03-2009 Location: White Lake, NY Status: Offline Points: 197 |
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this is an internet forum, i do not care about punctuation here. i never said that you had to take it somewhere to have it done and pay a lot of money. i have the time to winterize my boats and not pay for labor. most of these people dont even know the make of there boat, and are very busy. at least busy enough where winterizing there boat is not important. it is foolish to tell these people that just got there boat to simply pull drain plugs, extra insurance is a waste of money, blah blah. the fact is, this method works. as does draining the block if done correctly. however, this af is much safer. I guarantee the person that does not know how to winterize their boat, certainly has no clue where the drain plugs are. i do not know why your so against extra security. my only guess is you figure that you have been just draining blocks since the beginning of time, why do it a safer way. i suppose since i have never been in an accident i might as well not where a seat belt.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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I find this comment ^^^ (and your punctuation) analogous to YOUR method of winterization. |
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WhiteLakeSkier
Senior Member Joined: July-03-2009 Location: White Lake, NY Status: Offline Points: 197 |
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It is not worth it to spend the extra second to press the shift key. there is no risk not pressing it however, besides angering internet people. If antifreeze is the shift key and dont press it. i risk an engine, engines cost money. i cannot afford a new engine.
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tullfooter
Grand Poobah Joined: March-02-2007 Location: White Lake, MI Status: Offline Points: 2225 |
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I feel anyone who reads this thread can take the bullet points, and figure out the proper way to protect their block. If they can't, they should take it to a dealer.
I think you guys are scaring AirCanada into never posing another question. BTW, where did Chris (79) go? |
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Play hard, life's not a trial run.
'85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
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