the long road ahead - 67 Nautique resto/mod |
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WakeSlayer ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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Hey Chuck.
I am going to use the original mounts. I had considered a cradle, and I guess if I get more creative and ambitious, I could still do it. Probably will leave it. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mike,
Nothing wrong with keeping it original! ![]() |
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The Lake ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-13-2005 Location: Lk Winnebago MO Status: Offline Points: 1157 |
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Surprised to hear you say that Pete. I know that my ski pole has a bit of slop in it, not too bad . . . if I ever come to the day of redoing stringers having a cradle for the engine that would also support the pylon would be something to consider.
Mike does your pylon sit go through a 2x6 that is notched into the main stringers? Chuck |
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WakeSlayer ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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Pete, in honor of your credo, I am going to keep it nearly original. The only real mods are going to be the engine, but I am still using the 318 that came in the boat. Non-original serial number according to Correct Craft so, I don't really mind pigging it out.
Chuck, no, if you go back to the beginning of this thread, there are pics of the goofy pylon mount. It is angle iron and a tube (hole) and it was bolted to the stringers. I think it is mickey mouse. I plan on installing a 2x6 like you are refering to and was also in our Mustang. Between the clevis at the bottom, the 2x6, and the planned 3/4 floor, I should have decent support. My pylon is sleeved in the middle, as though maybe it was broken, or bent. which I do not like, however I do want to be able to hang a boom on the boat so I may just use it anyway and call it close to original in that case. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21145 |
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So youre regelling? Nice! ![]() |
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WakeSlayer ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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Ha ha. That one is still up for debate. However, it is extremely likely at this point. probaby 80/20 in favor of.
The Ponyboat is getting painted as we speak, but this one will need so much body work that I may as well gel. As near as I can tell it would cost nearly the same. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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storm34 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Gel!! What color are you going with? |
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WakeSlayer ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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Regardless of which route I go it will be done back to the same color blue, with just a small white stripe.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Keeganino ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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You might have mentioned it before and I missed it but on page 3, the newest pictures of the stringers- It looks like you are capping right over top of the notches for the cross members and then cutting them back out after the resin has cured? Are you then going to go another layer over top of the cross member to tie it all together? Those cross members were amongst the most rotten areas of my boat so I am curious what other people are doing.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Keegan, That intersection is a real tough one. I suggest pre glassing the cross members as well as the stringer notches. (make the notch wider and deeper to accommodate to thickness of the glass) Then set the cross member down into the knotch with thickened epoxy. One short strip of glass tape over the top of the stringer covering the top end and end of the cross member. Then another small strip at the cross member bottom to the side of the stringer. BTW, Pre glassing the cross member really helps because you don't need to work on bottom upside down!! |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21145 |
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Can someone explain to me the purpose of the notches? In the stock stringer system, there were some cross pieces stapled into these, right? Without the foam underneath, I cant see these providing much floor support- am I wrong? The stringers on our Skier will not have notches... instead, we are adding ribs between the secondary stringer and the hull wall. Mostly 1x's, but we'll use 2x's where the joints in the ply floor will land. Seems a lot more straightforward than having to glass in those notches- especially if youre not foaming.
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Tim, I think they do add some support for the floor and they tie the 2 stringers together. Our mustang had ribs or blocking under most of the strips of wood, but we did not install them as the floor is plenty strong without them. Your idea is interesting though, maybe that would be a good way to do the Barracuda?
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Mike, I was actually thinking about your boat the other day as I was looking the Barracuda over. I guess both boats are in fairly similar condition. I was wondering how you were going to make minor gel reapirs, but now I know. I don't want to go that route. I can live with the checking on the deck and wet sanding will remove the scratches and restore the gel, but how do you repair gouges, especially along the chine?
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Keeganino ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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![]() This is why I want a better way. Pete's method makes sense. Tim's idea is interesting and something to ponder. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21145 |
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^^^exactly my point^^^
The notches seem to be prone to rot in the factory stringer system. Im sure they can be built better than they were on a restring, but theyre still a PITA to install correctly. I dont see the need to tie the stringers together with these straps, since the floor serves the same purpose. My guess is that these pieces simply allowed the factory to prebuild the stringer system and drop it the boat in one piece. Since we're not in a production environment and are replacing them one by one, I think theres a better way. A few strategically placed ribs seem to be a more sound design, easier to fully encapsulate, provide better support for the floor, and require minimal extra material. They also provide structural support between the hull and floor, which is probably a good idea if youre not refoaming. Did I mis anything? For reference, here's a pic of Joe's rebuild (no foam, no straps). I think this is a good build to steal ideas from if youre not foaming, regardless of whether youre using coosa or wood. Ribs spaced in the 12-18" range (depending on the hull, floor thickness, etc) is probably about right. ![]() |
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WakeSlayer ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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The notches are for the cross members. I am going to wrap them once and bed down with a couple screws. They are slightly oversized to accomodate this. I am not sure I will add additional glass over this as this is far more protected than the original, considering the addition of CPES, epoxy, and glass, it should be fine.
Bruce, I do not many minor gel repairs to make, it is in poor shape on the deck from sitting out for many years, and there are a few good gouges here and there. Keegan, I wrapped one layer of tape over the top, and will put one layer of biaxial over the top also. I am going to run a wide strip of biax from the hull up to the top of the stringer also. Just not sure which order I will do it in. I have two layers on the inside of the mains, and then lots of little stuff to do yet, rudder plate, exhaust plates, and sealing the aft ends of the stringers better to the transom, before I start on the biaxial. And probably another order of epoxy. I think I am going to be about a gallon short. Maybe more. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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jbenbri ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: November-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 54 |
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What about the cross members? I have the same question. What purpose do they serve and do I need to add them back into my 83? I am going to foam but still don't see the need for them. Am I missing something?
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critter ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January-11-2008 Location: New Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 1227 |
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Ben, I think that Tim is saying that you do not need the cross members if you bring the top of the Ribs to floor level.
You do need Ribs or Crossmembers to have something to screw the floor down to and to support the floor. I think Crossmembers give more area for support under the floor. And as long as you CEPS and Glass everything in well, it should last longer than you do. |
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1980 Ski Nautique
1966 Barracuda |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Roger, how's that 66 Barracuda coming along?
What are you guys using for your floors. I used 5/8" fir cdx in the Mustang which seems really strong, especially after a few coats of epoxy. |
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WakeSlayer ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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I used 3/4" exterior on the Mustang. I may use 5/8 on this boat. I don't think 1/2" is quite enough.
The floor will be later this Spring. I am only doing the stringer now and stopping. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Our Classic has 1/2" which is what I think was used originaly. It is adequate, buy is definately a little springy, especially in areas where there is no support under the floor.
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WakeSlayer ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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I glued blocks on the side of the hull in the Mustang. The longitudinals set on top of those. I am considering something similar for the spray rail mounts. It seems easier than a couple 5 foot boards run along the inside. Especially as half the screws are below the floor and half are above.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mike,
Considering the close spacing of stringers and crossmembers the 1/2" would be a option if you want to save some weight. However, I suggest defiantly epoxying the ply down to the stringers and crossmembers. No screws unless they are temporary until the epoxy cures. Places like the removable center section aft of the dog house where support may be lacking, a couple 1x2's glassed to the bottom (on edge) of the ply will provide the support. Where the floor meets the hull side, you may what to incorporate the wood backing for the spray rails to support the floor as well. |
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79nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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well I though that panel was removal in most and the cross members are for support for the removal panel and for the people sitting in the back seat too.
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WakeSlayer ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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That is what I have been considering as I have been working on it. I did epoxy the floor down in the Mustang, but I also used some screws. Partly for the strength, and partly to hold down the ply as it had a couple twists in it from sitting around, despite being weighted. I pre-drilled, and epoxied the holes, countersunk slightly, and filled the tops. That floor is never coming out. The 3/4" does not have hardly any flex to it. I have a couple aluminum angles across between the stringers in the Mustang to support the removeable panel. It is just main stringer width. On this boat, I will have it go 7.5" wider on each side to the secondaries so I can access the exhaust if need be. This may require more support. With respect to my exhaust. I have copper pipes that go out the back. They are 3 1/8" OD. I need to put my boards in in the next day or so. Seeking opinions on whether to leave these or replace with 3" stainless. On one hand, the copper could be all shiny and pretty, but require constant cleaning. How hard will it be to force modern 3" wired hose over these? I am sure I can get it, but may be tough. Also, I imagine I will have a hard time getting a hole saw that size so I would have to likely drill 3", then sand round to the larger size. I did two more runs of tape on the inside of the mains last night. I have currently, 2", 2", 4", 8" cap, 8", 4". I still have enough to do another 8" down the joint if need be. Opinions on adding or just leaving it? Then I plan to cap with biax, then do a wide strip of biax from hull to the top edge of the stringers. I am going to do some repair and buildup work around the strut, and I think this will tie into that well. Thoughts? |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Correct Craft used both copper and SS for the exhaust with no consistancy that I can see. The guy we bought the Classic from spent a lot of time polishing those copper pipes and then putting a sealer on them. The boat has about 15 hours on it and has not been left in the water when not in use and they are pretty dull already, so I'd say keeping them pretty is a lot or work.
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mike,
The last time I had to fight the copper pipe sizing (1/8" over nominal) was on my X55. It's got 2&1/2" copper so the OD is 2&5/8. Yes, 2&1/2" hose did go on it but not without a fight!! Mcmaster does list rubber coolant hose in a 3&1/8" size. |
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WakeSlayer ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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so, would you leave it? or replace it? I kind of want to leave it. And it is original!
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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critter ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January-11-2008 Location: New Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 1227 |
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I did the same with the Barracuda. I used 3/4 exterior grade. Also filet the edges to the hull and then glassed the floor to the hull and to the stingers. If water gets to the foam, it will have to come in thru the hull. And if it does that, only the very top of the foam does not have the self sealing coating on it. I sanded the top of the foam down smooth with a belt sander before I biaxialed over the foam and crossmembers. |
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1980 Ski Nautique
1966 Barracuda |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Leave it. Copper looks nice. Don't ask me why someone would polish the pipes at the expense of the transom.
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